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Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S to catch up on Model 3

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Re: Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S to catch up on Model 3

#181

Post by nickik »

gozur88 wrote: post #178
nickik wrote: post #104

Elon Musk project not as fast as he claimed, yet still faster then everybody else. That literally every Tesla/SpaceX story in the last 10 years.

"Faster than everybody else"? I guess that depends on exactly what you're looking for. This year's Bolt has a 60kWh battery, which is supposed to give it a 238 mile range - more than the base Model 3. What exactly will the Model 3 bring to the table when I can actually walk into a showroom and buy one?

Thinking in a bigger scale then just right now Model 3 will make it clear. The way Tesla has transformed the whole car industry and the scale at which they approach the problem is way beyond anybody else.

The Bolt can not be produced in the numbers needed for a revolution. The people who produce it are not interested in a revolution in the first place.

The stock might be below peak right now, but the scaling they have achieved since they started is massive, and in the long term they are still on track.

Re: Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S to catch up on Model 3

#182

Post by namlem »

penglish1 wrote: post #152

The great thing about corporate missions & goals is that they are written so broadly: "Our goal when we created Tesla a decade ago was the same as it is today: to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport by bringing compelling mass market electric cars to market as soon as possible. " ( https://www.tesla.com/blog/mission-tesla ). Thanks to Tesla - seriously(!! COULD not and WOULD not have happened without them)…

Eh, the Bolt doesn't really impress me. I hope Nissan makes a better version of the Leaf. That's something I'd actually consider.

Re: Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S to catch up on Model 3

#183

Post by dboreham »

drewg123 wrote: post #55
maxerickson wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the Bolt compare to what you expect to get from Tesla?

I test drove one. It was fairly ok, but the seats were uncomfortable. The big objective thing that the Bolt is missing is a fast charging network. For now, nothing can touch Tesla's supercharger network in terms of charging speed and locations.

Wait...what? Someone built a bunch of charging stations all over the place and they only work with one vendor's cars!?!?

Re: Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S to catch up on Model 3

#184

Post by namlem »

dboreham wrote: post #183
drewg123 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I test drove one. It was fairly ok, but the seats were uncomfortable. The big objective thing that the Bolt is missing is a fast charging network. For now, nothing can touch Tesla's supercharger network in terms of charging speed and locations.

Wait...what? Someone built a bunch of charging stations all over the place and they only work with one vendor's cars!?!?

Other car companies are free to make their cars compatible, since Tesla released the patents. It's just that no one has yet.

Re: Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S to catch up on Model 3

#185

Post by gozur88 »

nickik wrote: post #181
gozur88 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Faster than everybody else"? I guess that depends on exactly what you're looking for. This year's Bolt has a 60kWh battery, which is supposed to give it a 238 mile range - more than the base Model 3. What exactly will the Model 3 bring to the table when I can actually walk into a showroom and buy one?

Thinking in a bigger scale then just right now Model 3 will make it clear. The way Tesla has transformed the whole car industry and the scale at which they approach the problem is way beyond anybody else. The Bolt can not be produced in the numbers needed for a revolution. The people who produce it are not interested in a revolution in the first place. The stock might be below peak right now, but the scaling they hav…

>The Bolt can not be produced in the numbers needed for a revolution. The people who produce it are not interested in a revolution in the first place.

That's an odd argument to be making in favor of a company that's having so much trouble producing cars. Why do you think the Bolt can't be produced in larger numbers? Does Tesla make in a year as many cars as GM makes in a day?

Re: Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S to catch up on Model 3

#186

Post by pacificmint »

namlem wrote: post #182
penglish1 wrote: post #152

The great thing about corporate missions & goals is that they are written so broadly: "Our goal when we created Tesla a decade ago was the same as it is today: to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport by bringing compelling mass market electric cars to market as soon as possible. " ( https://www.tesla.com/blog/mission-tesla ). Thanks to Tesla - seriously(!! COULD not and WOULD not have happened without them)…

Eh, the Bolt doesn't really impress me. I hope Nissan makes a better version of the Leaf. That's something I'd actually consider.

The second generation Leaf was just launched in Japan, and will come to the US next year, I believe.

It seems to have much better range (two battery options with 40kWh and 60kWh which give est range of 150 and 200 miles, resp).

Re: Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S to catch up on Model 3

#187

Post by babesh »

Disclaimer: I own Tesla shares. Tesla has a long history of taking far longer and far more money to achieve a goal than they forecast. They don't show signs of adjusting their forecasts based on previous misses. For the last couple of years the market has given them a pass for that when the market has punished other companies for far less. Tesla has gone to the well again and again to raise money. One concern is that if market support drops, they may not be able to go to the well again. And history suggests that they will need to and will miss their revised goal as well.

Re: Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S to catch up on Model 3

#188

Post by opencl »

dmix wrote: post #94
saas_co_de wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They definitely seem to have hit a plateau in terms of demand which was declining before they started to slash prices in order to move inventory. The S/X and are old now and the car market requires new models to keep sales going. That combined with the approaching launches of other high end luxury electric cars does not bode well for future S/X sales. The negative press on autopilot and failure to deliver on autopilo…

> The negative press on autopilot and failure to deliver on autopilot 2.0 Was there more than that accident with the old version? I havent heard much about this...

HW2 has been out for over a year and has yet to reach feature parity with HW1. I would call that a "failure to deliver". Earlier this year Musk said “November or December of this year, we should be able to go from a parking lot in California to a parking lot in New York, no controls touched at any point during the entire journey.”

It's November and they don't even have automatic windshield wipers working.

See: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FGexNNm8rOXB24qQ1bdI...

Re: Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S to catch up on Model 3

#189

Post by bunderbunder »

kylec wrote: post #108
pmurT wrote: post #15

I've been considering cancelling my preorder. As late as they'll be (assuming they do deliver) and my estimated place in line, the other manufacturers will have competitive offerings

No other manufacturer has a charging network like the Supercharger network, and that isn't likely to change anytime soon. Not being able to take a car on the occasional long-ish trip greatly diminishes its utility for a lot of people.

I'm guessing that most households who are likely to go for one are also multi-car households, and you probably aren't going to normally be taking _all_ of your cars on a long-ish trip at the same time. I'm guessing most of any potential loss in attractiveness represents anxiety more than it represents a genuine loss in utility.

Re: Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S to catch up on Model 3

#190

Post by chc »

dmix wrote: post #94
saas_co_de wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They definitely seem to have hit a plateau in terms of demand which was declining before they started to slash prices in order to move inventory. The S/X and are old now and the car market requires new models to keep sales going. That combined with the approaching launches of other high end luxury electric cars does not bode well for future S/X sales. The negative press on autopilot and failure to deliver on autopilo…

> The negative press on autopilot and failure to deliver on autopilot 2.0 Was there more than that accident with the old version? I havent heard much about this...

The negative press was basically just 15000 different ways of saying "A car once crashed while on Autopilot, and I have a theory about how it means the whole product is a sham." There's really not much more to it besides me-tooing.

But the failure to deliver is real. The entire Autopilot project is way behind schedule. AP2 was supposed to reach feature parity last year, but it didn't until quite recently, and it's still widely considered not to be as good as experience as the original Autopilot yet.

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