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Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

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Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#181

Post by StavrosK »

jankotek wrote: post #11

I have Dell XPS 13. When keyboard broke (probably my fault), technician come to my house next day and replaced it in front of me. For free, as part of basic warranty. I was on holiday in other country...

I love my XPS 15 otherwise, but it has the same problem: A double-pressing spacebar all the damn time, and capslock+ (I remapped caps to ctrl) leaves software-stuck until I press any other key.

So far, no updates. I could send it to Dell to have the keyboard replace, but that's going to leave me without a laptop for days, and will do exactly nothing, since this is a software problem.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#182

Post by bitexploder »

j7ake wrote: post #146
mickael-kerjean wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's already here. I got between 13h (normal workload) to 25h (no internet and Emacs only) on the Lenovo x270 with arch and i3wm

Great thanks good to know. Do you have any issues with sleep or closing lid draining battery ?

Ehh, anecdotal, I know, but a couple of our new MBPs we have bought kernel panic and never wake up from sleep either. I have a Dell XPS 13 and it wakes and sleeps. I recommend cruising the Arch Linux Wiki for your specific laptop you have in mind. It is rare for it to not have some sort of issue you need to iron out around sleep.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#183

Post by addicted »

rbanffy wrote: post #178
lghh wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a) I'm a developer, I do not use traditional function keys and would much rather have media keys, etc. Function keys also served as media keys.

True, but the touchbar is much better at that specific role. It also opens up different forms of interaction for other applications. The terminal, for instance, has an instant man page key. This is kind of cool. A tiling window manager could have window management special keys. I have a very nice keyboard on my desk at home with, a glorious Unicomp PC122 with 24 function keys. I love it, but I need to confess I never…

> The terminal, for instance, has an instant man page key.

So, F1 on Windows basically?

It seems to me that a lot of advantages mentioned by folks on the touchbar are born of Apple’s refusal to actually use the Fn keys as shortcut keys, unlike on Windows.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#184

Post by kps »

nrclark wrote: post #5

My work gave me one of the 2016 15" MBPs as my main computer, and the keyboard is horrible. My V key double-presses about half the time, and the rest of the keys are really hard to press down all the way. Some of the keys make a weird metal rattle when I press them. Typing on that wretched keyboard for more than an hour or so literally bruises my fingers. Since I do most of my day-to-day work at a dock with an extern…

> Who the hell decided that programmers don't need a functional ESC key or permanent function keys?

Steve Jobs.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/jurvetson/841771

The original Macintosh didn't have them either, or Control.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#185

Post by dang »

ggus wrote: post #157
dang wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> stop making excuses for Apple's dumb decisions. This breaks the HN guidelines by being uncivil as well as uncharitable in the sense requested here: "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize." Your comment would be fine without that first bit. Would you mind reading https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and following the gui…

still it adds that small something to the comment. we humans adapt to things, we try to make excuses for our (and our friend's) errors. we try to come up with solutions. that unpolite remark underlines the issue pretty well: one one side there is a solution, on the other side there is a poor implemented idea

Sure, but the unpoliteness was gratuitous and damages the container. You can drive to an interesting place without scratching the car.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#186

Post by shub »

lghh wrote: post #165
danpalmer wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who the hell decided that programmers don't need a functional ESC key or permanent function keys? a) I'm a developer, I do not use traditional function keys and would much rather have media keys, etc. b) This laptop is not just for programmers. It is designed for many people, many of whom could benefit significantly (applications in video/music editing look very useful).

> a) I'm a developer, I do not use traditional function keys and would much rather have media keys, etc. Function keys also served as media keys.

By default, even! There's a config option now, but it used to be that you needed KeyRemap4Macbook to change that.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#187

Post by bitexploder »

pimeys wrote: post #91

This autumn I finally needed to buy a new laptop and spent some time testing and figuring out which keyboard I like the most. The funny thing was that the only seriously decent laptop keyboard is in a model that has a limited release and will probably sell out in the coming weeks: The ThinkPad 25th anniversary edition. How can it be that to get a seriously good keyboard for programming, I need to get a novelty laptop…

I think FHD is a feature. Even on a 15" laptop it is around 140ppi, thats... a lot. And FHD saves on battery life significantly on anything not Apple. I specifically ordered a Precision 7520 this week with an anti-glare FHD with no mic or webcam because 140+ PPI is a good balance for me and it extends battery life significantly.

96 ppi is the old standard. 140ppi generally gives a very nice and crisp screen. The 220 or so on most MBP retina is nice, but probably overkill starting around 180ppi in my estimation.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#188

Post by rbanffy »

addicted wrote: post #183
rbanffy wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but the touchbar is much better at that specific role. It also opens up different forms of interaction for other applications. The terminal, for instance, has an instant man page key. This is kind of cool. A tiling window manager could have window management special keys. I have a very nice keyboard on my desk at home with, a glorious Unicomp PC122 with 24 function keys. I love it, but I need to confess I never…

> The terminal, for instance, has an instant man page key. So, F1 on Windows basically? It seems to me that a lot of advantages mentioned by folks on the touchbar are born of Apple’s refusal to actually use the Fn keys as shortcut keys, unlike on Windows.

Not quite, because F1 meaning help is entirely a convention. Much like :q! is quit or C-x C-f is open file and Meta is the alt/option key.

That's one of the reasons I use the F-keys on the PC122 so little - it's hard to remember what I made them do.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#189

Post by ashark »

carlivar wrote: post #147
Yetanfou wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution seems clear to me: you don't need to stop using laptops, you need to switch to another brand. There are plenty of laptops (or notebooks or whatever you prefer to call the things) with keyboards which work by manufacturers who put function over form instead of the other way around. The only snag you might hit is if you're stuck - emotionally or otherwise - to a given operating system but even that is solv…

The problem is the OS. Apple hasn't entirely screwed up macOS yet (give them time). It is still better than Windows and Linux in my opinion. The hardware decline brings them closer to even with other laptops, all things considered, but I suspect many people prefer macOS enough to still stomach the bad hardware.

Plus the trackpad. Everyone's still playing catch-up on that. Mac laptops are the only ones I've ever used for which I don't halt all work immediately until I can find a mouse, if I'm doing something that'll take more than ~5min. This makes it the only line of laptops I know that are actually usable as self-contained devices (that is, for their intended purpose)

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#190

Post by pdq »

If you own a Macbook or Macbook Pro with the new slim keyboard, do yourself a favor and buy an Uppercase keyboard protector [1].

I got dust under mine last year, had to get the Apple repair under warranty, and then bought this $12.95 insurance. It's been working great ever since. If I pull the cover off, the keyboard looks brand new.

The only negative is that it leaves key impressions on the screen when you close the laptop (due to the the cover touching the glass), but these are easily cleaned off with water/alcohol once every 2 weeks.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/UPPERCASE-GhostCover-Keyboard-Protect...

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