The US became the world's biggest economy in the late 1890s. So how did we become the largest economy? Stealing a large landmass blessed with abundant resources and fertile arable land. Growing the population immensely via high birth rates and immigration. Industrious population and business friendly laws helped. But it was mostly OIL. The US was the saudi arabia of oil for nearly 100 years from mid 1800s to ww2. Standard Oil became the largest company in the world for a reason. We had a ridiculous amount of oil and we exploited it. Oil was discovered in the 1850s and it helped the american economy become the largest in the world.
A 400-year story of progress – How America became the world’s biggest economy
181–190 of 252 posts
Re: A 400-year story of progress – How America became the world’s biggest economy
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
States can't leave the USA countries can leave the EU, which is a massive difference. NAFTA and EU are not countries they are an agreement between countries.
States can leave the US with the consent of Congress. Congress has never given its consent, and it is hard to predict how it would behave if such a request was seriously made today. Congress did reject the demand of the Confederate states to secede, but there was a strong moral argument against allowing their secession–their primary reason for secession were to continue to evil practice of slavery. If a state wanted…
> States can leave the US with the consent of Congress.
No, they can't. The Constitution only provides for rules on forming new states and forming states from parts of other states. There is no text on what happen should a state decide it wants to live. In the Civil War, some states argued that the Constitution was a voluntary compact of sovereign states, such that a state could unilaterally leave if it so desired (no need to get consent of Congress). SCOTUS later held that these declarations of secession never held validity.
Re: A 400-year story of progress – How America became the world’s biggest economy
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If people in this thread were being honest they'd be well aware that this particularly American flaw isn't so specific to the US. Sure. It's probably a human trait. But I'm not japanese or belgian or german so I wouldn't know. But I'm responding to a comment which "excused" our sins and I'm an american so that's why I made the comment. If it is a human trait, so be it. But the fact that you are pointing to the sins…
I see no "excuse" of American sins, only a response to a tirade which makes very targeted and laughable statements like "unlimited slave labour and IP from Europe". Who established the Atlantic slave trade if not Europeans? Only pointing out the sins of others because some dick decided to turn a fun historical thread into smug hate the US thread. Any educated American is aware of this stuff. The most voted response i…
> I see no "excuse" of American sins, only a response to a tirade which makes very targeted and laughable statements like "unlimited slave labour and IP from Europe".
Okay. I can see you are passionate about this but you need to calm down. The guy offered his opinion. It wasn't a tirade.
> Who established the Atlantic slave trade if not Europeans?
Sure. And britain was the largest slave trading nation and they were the largest world economy, until the US took over. I don't think anyone is denying that it was the europeans who created the atlantic slave trade.
> Only pointing out the sins of others because some dick decided to turn a fun historical thread into smug hate the US thread.
There is really no need for this. You are better than this.
I can see this is getting a bit too heated so I'll just end it here. You are entitled to your opinion and the op is entitled to his. No need to attack people or use vulgur ad hominems.
Re: A 400-year story of progress – How America became the world’s biggest economy
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Sort of. The big advantage the US had was OCEANS on both sides and only stone age peoples to the south. By the time the US became a country, the indigenous peoples had access to firearms, certainly every one the US Army would have been fighting. It's also worth pointing out that the US bordered an English colony to the north and a mestizo former Spanish colony to the south.
And the French controlled half the continent too before they gave it up for peanuts.
Nominally, yes. In practice, the control in most of that region didn't really extend outside of the presence of a few trading posts. (It should also be noted that Mexican control of Alta California outside of the coastal region was similarly nominal)
Re: A 400-year story of progress – How America became the world’s biggest economy
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You sound bitter. Find a society without historical sin and then we can talk. You sound defensive. Why should there need to be a sinless society before you'll entertain someone's thoughts on the relationship between your sins and your success.
Don't get me wrong, like every American interested in history, I'm well aware of the sins of the United States. Hell, Texas was colonized by slaveholders who were illegal immigrants before it was stolen from Mexico. On the other hand, Mexico itself is a land full of people who are the offspring of the conquerors and the conquered. There's really no winning and nobody with a clean record. What I object to is someone w…
>>What I object to is someone who's bitter because he's not American launching into an irrelevant tirade and acting like they are somehow better when 60 years ago Europeans were exterminating each other.
75 years ago Europeans were exterminating each other. Today, they are united and peaceful for the most part, and their union is one of the largest and most successful economies in the world.
75 years ago America entered World War 2 and helped defeat the Nazis. Today Nazis are openly marching in the streets and running over counterprotesters with cars, and the President suggests that "both sides" have "very fine people".
Perspective is a hell of a thing, isn't it?
Re: A 400-year story of progress – How America became the world’s biggest economy
#186Let's call it as it is, an entire continent was usurped, a gigantic fertile landmass rich in resources was stolen along with unlimited slave labour and IP from Europe. The consequence is predictable. Using jingoism to spin this into some sort of exceptionalism celebrates the loot and plunder without a hint of self consciousness or remorse, and cements a barbaric ideology that fuels more indiscriminate global plunder…
But didn't the European countries usurp the entire continent of Africa, a giant fertile landmass rich in resources that was stolen along with unlimited slave labour? The land the USA encompasses is tiny compared to Africa (http://flowingdata.com/2010/10/18/true-size-of-africa/). Europe African colonialism was horrifying, but it should have resulted in a economy much larger the that of the USA. Someone screwed the pooch.
Re: A 400-year story of progress – How America became the world’s biggest economy
#187Let's call it as it is, an entire continent was usurped, a gigantic fertile landmass rich in resources was stolen along with unlimited slave labour and IP from Europe. The consequence is predictable. Using jingoism to spin this into some sort of exceptionalism celebrates the loot and plunder without a hint of self consciousness or remorse, and cements a barbaric ideology that fuels more indiscriminate global plunder…
So you want to argue that America shouldn't exist in a just world, but what exactly would be in its place?
I don't think we'd likely have a single continent spanning country ran by the many different nations that were there before. It'd be much more likely that colonialism that divided Africa and South America would be passed around North America, and there wouldn't have been any country to balance the European powers that continually fought each other in the 20th century or for Russia, Japan and China in the second half of that century.
You can acknowledge the wrongs that America took, but you also have to accept that it's mostly been a force for good, even today.
Re: A 400-year story of progress – How America became the world’s biggest economy
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
The settlers who went to South America with the dreams of plucking gold bars out of the fruit trees and using an enslaved population to make hard farm work a breeze met a harsher reality. I don't know for certain, but I assume that the land was harder to make arable, the weather was less forgiving, the rainforests brought additional problems (like persistence of mosquitos and ticks). Plus South America didn't unify l…
> The settlers who went to South America with the dreams of plucking gold bars out of the fruit trees and using an enslaved population to make hard farm work a breeze met a harsher reality. Brazil had a higher slave-to-free ratio than the US, and imported more slaves than any other colony/country in the Americas (it was also the last country to ban slavery). Actually, the US was never a major slave importer--the US a…
TIL. thanks
Re: A 400-year story of progress – How America became the world’s biggest economy
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're hand-waving away both ease of extraction and also the minerals that were worthwhile in the industrial and pre-industrial ages. North America had plenty of iron and coal, and it was easy to get them around, and also easy to extract and use them for most of the year (the temperate climate). Minerals you can't reach or can't use are not useful - there was not a lot of call for Tantalum in the 1800s. Compare to Br…
The dominance of the Spanish was based off of extracting natural wealth from SA, it's just they squandered that wealth instead of building up industry. From 1500-1800ish there was far more easily taken natural wealth in SA, only a myopic view of history isn't aware of that.
Apart from gold, which was only really useful in the advanced economy of Europe (a hammer made of gold isn't very good), what was the mineral wealth extracted from South America in this period? What minerals could be easily used to supplement agriculture and build industry in the local area?
What mineral industries do you see as being far easier in SA than NA in your period? What are the mineral industries that you see SA as squandering?
Don't forget either that west-coast minerals were a very long way away from advanced markets (also going via the hostile Straits of Magellan), and additionally could never benefit from the tradewinds that assisted the 'triangle trade'. Any commerce-based society there would have massive limitations.
Re: A 400-year story of progress – How America became the world’s biggest economy
#190Stop calling it america, it's north america..
Hey can someone explain this position? You see it a lot on the internet - we all know it's just short for the mouthful of "The United States of America", right? Is it just garden variety anti-Americanism, or is it based on something else? You also see the form "American means anyone from both continents," which is off in exactly the same way.
No one from Canada or Mexico would say “I am an American”. You only here that from someone from the USA. So whatever the official title is the popular usage is that is some says they are “American” it means they are a citizen of the United States Of America.