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Bitcoin is fiat money, too

economist.com

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Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#181

Post by dmichulke »

elif wrote: post #156
aviv wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, the same people telling you it's going to $100K are the ones saying this is a digital currency that should be spent. Well, I sure ain't about to spend $100K to buy 2 MacBook Pros.

Those two positions are obviously congruent. In the scenario where you believe bitcoin will be worth $100,000 and you have $7,000 or 2BTC, you decide to buy a computer for $3,500. If the remainder of your value is in dollars, you will have $3,500 in value. If the remainder of your value is in bitcoin, you will have $100,000. The depreciating asset you've invested in here is the macbook, not bitcoins. I have a 1.4 bit…

> I have a 1.4 bitcoin T-shirt.

Is that you?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/01/04/article-2257209-16...

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#182

Post by _coldfire »

Robotbeat wrote: post #171
tomsthumb wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Until you have 51% of the hash power you can't make any changes as you simply get ignored unless you follow the exact same rules as the majority This is exactly their point. This applies to everyone and all organizational entities.

Well, "whoever is in power makes the rules" applies to everyone and all organizational entities, too. In this case, we're talking hash power, but same thing, isn't it?

A huge amount of hashpower was behind the desire for bitcoin cash, and that didn't work out.

Think some underestimate firstmover advantage and end-user inertia.

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#183

Post by labster »

mirimir wrote: post #180
amb23 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Code is governance" -- the article does support the idea of cryptocurrency as fiat money because the laws, in this case, are the code. The developers and miners, no matter their good intentions, do hold power over the currency that everyday investors do not have. No matter how egalitarian the distributed ledger set up looks on paper, we'd be remiss to think the power structures behind cryptocurrencies are so radical…

Yes, that's the distinction. With Bitcoin, a codebase prevails if it attracts enough miners, merchants and users. Those parties in aggregate have "fiat power". It's arguable that fiat power for each state similarly reflects preferences of banks, merchants and users. However, some of us doubt that money policy typically favors users. With government fiat, forking isn't really possible, without a revolution, no matter…

So you're telling me that government money, where everyone gets a say in policy through republican institutions, is worse than a system where the most wealthy users get more control of the currency. Um, okay. I guess the oligarchy is more explicit in the cryptocurrency.

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#184

Post by dmichulke »

nikcub wrote: post #174
mrb wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

« The Fed creates dollars » Exactly what the parent said. The fact it is used to buy TBills is irrelevant: the Fed creates money out of thin air. Period.

Replace TBills with gold - is it still being created out of thin air? The point is it’s backed by an asset

Did the fed dig out the gold nugget? If not, there is now more dollars chasing the same amount of goods.

Yes it's still backed but less than before, i.e., devalued.

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#185

Post by foepys »

KGIII wrote: post #178
noddy1 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you spend most of your time in USA if you are not a citizen? Who wants to live in lebanon?

Visas are usually easy to get and there are counties other than the US and aren't Lebanon. Also, Lebanon isn't really all that terrible and you don't need to live there. You can be a citizen of Zimbabwe, if you want. The point is to not have the US government forcing disclosure, per the OP's question.

Roger Ver, who ironically for this thread is a crypto currency investor, renounced his US citizenship to avoid paying taxes and was repeatedly denied entry into the US afterwards. He will most likely never be able to visit his family in the US again.

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#186

Post by kemiller »

labster wrote: post #183
mirimir wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's the distinction. With Bitcoin, a codebase prevails if it attracts enough miners, merchants and users. Those parties in aggregate have "fiat power". It's arguable that fiat power for each state similarly reflects preferences of banks, merchants and users. However, some of us doubt that money policy typically favors users. With government fiat, forking isn't really possible, without a revolution, no matter…

So you're telling me that government money, where everyone gets a say in policy through republican institutions, is worse than a system where the most wealthy users get more control of the currency. Um, okay. I guess the oligarchy is more explicit in the cryptocurrency.

It’s not really government money though, is it? It’s bank money.

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#188

Post by takeda »

snitko wrote: post #23
kobeya wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The price doesn’t define the success of bitcoin.

Well what does? More people using it and interested in it? Doesn't define success. More merchants accepting it? Doesn't define success. More governments paying attention to it? Doesn't define success. What on earth would define success? It's like nothing is ever enough for you people.

Success of bitcoin define what it was designed to do.

It was meant as an electronic CURRENCY, something that you can use as a payment for every day items.

Currently it's similar to Tulip Mania[1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#189

Post by KGIII »

foepys wrote: post #185
KGIII wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visas are usually easy to get and there are counties other than the US and aren't Lebanon. Also, Lebanon isn't really all that terrible and you don't need to live there. You can be a citizen of Zimbabwe, if you want. The point is to not have the US government forcing disclosure, per the OP's question.

Roger Ver, who ironically for this thread is a crypto currency investor, renounced his US citizenship to avoid paying taxes and was repeatedly denied entry into the US afterwards. He will most likely never be able to visit his family in the US again.

One good anecdote deserves another. One of my friends from my military days was jaded and renounced his citizenship. He was here to visit last winter. He spent about a month with us.

Re: Bitcoin is fiat money, too

#190

Post by sonink »

Fundamentally, Bitcoin is software eating the Fed-Bank-Retail ecosystem. The Fed governance is replaced by code. The banking utility is replaced by miners.

I think the march of bitcoin is actually a better example of how AI is taking over the world. People in AI are fascinated by AGI - but the bitcoin ecosystem is actually a real world example of how AI will take over the world.

Specifically, the march of AI won't happen at 'edge' nodes, it won't be incremental, it won't happen by replacing humans with machines. The march of AI will start at the core, at a rethink of the fundamental infrastructure that powers an industry making it more amenable to machines and 'hostile' to most humans.

People underestimate the amount of resources required to articulate monetary policy by a central bank. Bitcoin can already do that much better than maybe 70% of the worlds central banks. India, China and US can think about banning/regulating bitcoin. But there are countries in Africa who can already do better by simply leapfrogging to bitcoin and ditching their national currencies.

Bitcoin is here to stay. And it cant be stopped.

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