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Tesla Model S battery degradation data

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Re: Tesla Model S battery degradation data

#181

Post by myrandomcomment »

photojosh wrote: post #164
microcolonel wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm in en_AU. How is it over your way? It's mixed here in en_CA (I've lived in Calgary, Vancouver, and Toronto at different points). In my experience, kay is used for kilometres when talking about manual travel/exercise (bicycle, running) as in "couch to 5k", but it's almost always klicks or kilometres when talking about driving, and usually only kilometres when talking about most other forms of transport.

We occasionally use 'klicks' interchangeably with 'kay' or 'kays', but it's pretty rare.

It can be more confusing. US date - m/d/y. Distance in miles. If you are in the US military - d/m/y and klicks (km). Was in UK a few weeks ago and rented a car, mph for speed, everything else (except beer) in metric.

Re: Tesla Model S battery degradation data

#182

Post by jakobegger »

Doesn‘t anybody find it curious that the source of data are range estimates displayed on the cars built-in dashboard?

For all we know, Teslas might be programmed to show more „optimistic“ estimates as the batteries get older.

I‘m not saying this is actually the case, but these stats are effectively manufacturer-provided numbers. Would you trust data like this if it came from any other car manufacturer?

If you have a gasoline car, do you trust the fuel consumption rate displayed on the dashboard? Should journalists trust it? Or should they measure how much gas they put in the tank and divide it by distance driven?

Re: Tesla Model S battery degradation data

#183

Post by semi-extrinsic »

microcolonel wrote: post #173
Coincoin wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always surprised that en_CA and fr_CA are so different. We use spaces as separator and comma for the decimal. Also we use the 24h format while the ROC uses 12h. We do use 12h colloquially though. Dates are officially y-M-d but most people use d/M/y. It's funny how in Canada we have some specific remnants of the imperial system. Most people under 50 have no idea what a Fahrenheit is (myself included), except for p…

The funny thing about the imperial remnants is that for almost all general tasks, Canadians still use pounds for weight (groceries, body mass, vehicle weight), but we don't use ounces. We use feet and inches to measure people, but metres for almost everything else, except nautical speed. Litres for gas in cars, sometimes gallons or pounds instead of litres for gas on boats. Pints for blood and beer, ounces for hard l…

> Even in the U.S. of course, for engineers, mechanics, and some others they still have to deal with a mix.

s/U.S./the entire world/

It's very common to have international U.S. based companies offer N types of fasteners/whatever in imperial sizes, but only N/2 in metric. So we frequently build stuff in imperial sizes because of greater flexibility.

And don't get me started on (non)tapered pipe threads... I've heard some horror stories of huge subassemblies built in Europe using BSPT and shipped to the U.S. for final assembly, where of course everything else is NPT, so some poor sod has to spend a month replacing all subassembly fittings.

Re: Tesla Model S battery degradation data

#184

Post by mantas »

jakobegger wrote: post #182

Doesn‘t anybody find it curious that the source of data are range estimates displayed on the cars built-in dashboard? For all we know, Teslas might be programmed to show more „optimistic“ estimates as the batteries get older. I‘m not saying this is actually the case, but these stats are effectively manufacturer-provided numbers. Would you trust data like this if it came from any other car manufacturer? If you have a…

I know it's anecdata, but I found the dashboard estimate on my VW (heh) strangely correct. It's off by +/- 5% in most cases. Since it doesn't take upcoming traffic/terrain/wind into account, I find it more than reasonable.

Re: Tesla Model S battery degradation data

#185

Post by davedx »

GuB-42 wrote: post #98
TomMarius wrote: post #7

Average life of ICE vehicles can't be 266kkm, that's absurdly low. Most of people I know have bought vehicles with that mileage and used it for another 100kkm after that at some point in their life (think first/second car, second family car, etc.). It's important to know that especially in Central/Eastern Europe, you can never trust the car's odometer - even the cars I'm talking about had probably more than 350kkm wh…

I've heard from mechanics that ICE cars are designed to last 250kkm reliably. It doesn't mean that car can't last longer than that, but more and more repairs are to be expected, and it is more likely to fail at any time. If you are a professional, keeping such a car doesn't make economical sense. Furthermore, in high income countries, they actually want you to destroy these old cars to promote the new car market.

It depends a lot on whether the ICE is diesel or gasoline. They have very different lifetimes.

Re: Tesla Model S battery degradation data

#186

Post by gambiting »

jakobegger wrote: post #182

Doesn‘t anybody find it curious that the source of data are range estimates displayed on the cars built-in dashboard? For all we know, Teslas might be programmed to show more „optimistic“ estimates as the batteries get older. I‘m not saying this is actually the case, but these stats are effectively manufacturer-provided numbers. Would you trust data like this if it came from any other car manufacturer? If you have a…

I trust the fuel consumption in my car, yeah. If it says I've been using 12l/100km on average and I've travelled 500km, you can bet I'm filling up exactly 60l at the pump.

Re: Tesla Model S battery degradation data

#187

Post by dx034 »

gambiting wrote: post #186
jakobegger wrote: post #182

Doesn‘t anybody find it curious that the source of data are range estimates displayed on the cars built-in dashboard? For all we know, Teslas might be programmed to show more „optimistic“ estimates as the batteries get older. I‘m not saying this is actually the case, but these stats are effectively manufacturer-provided numbers. Would you trust data like this if it came from any other car manufacturer? If you have a…

I trust the fuel consumption in my car, yeah. If it says I've been using 12l/100km on average and I've travelled 500km, you can bet I'm filling up exactly 60l at the pump.

That really depends on the car. I don't own a car so often use rental cars. Most cars' consumption is within 10% of the shown values but at least every fifth car I drive has vastly different numbers.

I think it is not necessarily due to the car but because of the calculation methods they use. If you drive motorway and city, consumption is accurate. But as soon as you start driving in the mountains or a mix of different terrains, data often vastly differs.

Re: Tesla Model S battery degradation data

#188

Post by dx034 »

myrandomcomment wrote: post #181
photojosh wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We occasionally use 'klicks' interchangeably with 'kay' or 'kays', but it's pretty rare.

It can be more confusing. US date - m/d/y. Distance in miles. If you are in the US military - d/m/y and klicks (km). Was in UK a few weeks ago and rented a car, mph for speed, everything else (except beer) in metric.

The UK is more complicated than that. Most of the signs are in metric but some distances are in yards and heights are in feet. Petrol prices are in litres but consumption is in mpg, even though there's no indication on how many gallons you actually fill up. In stores, everything has to be metric because of EU regulation but packaging for liquids is often in pints (e.g. milk, beer) and then gets translated into litres.

Temperatures are usually in Celsius but are shown in F once it gets hot (100 degrees sounds better than 38).

Even though I'm a fan of the metric system, being in the US is easier than the UK, at least measurements are consistent...

Re: Tesla Model S battery degradation data

#189

Post by F_r_k »

aphextron wrote: post #165
GuB-42 wrote: post #102

That's quite impressive. What I am wondering is why they do do well, barely losing 10% in 5 years, compared to phone or laptop batteries that last maybe 3 years on average. AFAIK, they use the same technology, in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the same batch of cells end up partly in Teslas and partly in laptops.

The real killer for laptop batteries is the fact that they are kept at 100% charge plugged in while under extreme thermal stress. Temperature + full charge kills li-ion batteries. Do your laptop a favor and never charge to 100% unless you really need to.

That's completely false. It was true though with NiMH batteries

Re: Tesla Model S battery degradation data

#190

Post by Dylan16807 »

stephengillie wrote: post #168
kurusii wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a side note (not to you particularly--I see this a lot), you can't delete a comment once a reply is made in order to preserve context to the replies. This is probably for people like me, who come after the replies are written. With this in mind, why side-step the inability to delete your comment by just replacing it with something else? It's technically allowed, but isn't that against the spirit of the original ru…

The comment was losing points and thus obviously incorrect. I'm not going to let it sit around and burn internet points!

You have thousands of points so who cares, and disrupting the conversation is only going to get more downvotes. How about editing in a retraction, without deleting?
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