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Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

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Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once someone drags your name through the mud in public , it's well past the point of having a private chat. His behavior isn't a huge red flag in the slightest; he's responding to what's essentially a public attack of his character. Responding to something like that publicly when it's already a public situation isn't a form of aggression. You are projecting WAY too much of your own bias and opinion into what was simp…

If the allegations were unsubstantiated it would not have gotten this far, especially if he dealt with this in a mature fashion by engaging and showing he is just a reasonable person. If they were totally unsubstantiated the only way it would get to this point is because he dealt with it in the worst ways possiblle. People wouldn't have quit to make what is essentially a useless fork if it were truly unsubstantiated.…

This reads akin to the logic behind a witch hunt - a bunch of people are very upset at a person, therefore the person must be a witch. I disagree with the premise.

The people are indisputibly angry. They may have reason to be angry. I don't see it, but they may have it. But the entire line that "he's accused, therefore he must be guilty" is flawed.

Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#182

Possibly off-topic: this is why GitHub, and GitLab, are both problematic platforms for online collaboration and community-building. There was once a list of grievances against this person here https://github.com/nodejs/TSC/issues/310 . That list is no longer present; it has been redacted, and a reason for that redaction has been posted. As someone who has zero context for this issue, this makes it very hard for me to…

If only current ICO hype could spawn DAPP alternative to github

Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#183
post #54

A code of conduct without transparency or due process seems more than dangerous to me. It is the stuff of kangaroo courts and star chambers.

James Snell's reasoning behind hiding the accusations inside the committee deliberations is theoretically sound: to keep Rod from getting harassed. I mean, under the current circumstances, a public, enumerated list of all your supposed crimes is pretty much guaranteed to bring a mob down on your head, and it would probably rocket to the top of Google searches for your name -- regardless of how the process turned out.…

> James Snell's reasoning behind hiding the accusations inside the committee deliberations is theoretically sound: to keep Rod from getting harassed.

No. It is not. Saying that the specific accusations were removed to keep Rod from getting harassed suggests that it must have been something serious. Fortunately there's the Web Archive and you see what was the 3 most serious crimes that rod was accused of, and I quote:

1. "Rod’s first action was to apologize to a contributor who had been repeatedly moderated" 2. "Rod did not moderate himself when asked by another foundation director" 3. "Most recently Rod tweeted in support of an inflammatory anti-Code-of-Conduct article"

Some of this is NOT EVEN TRUE - see Rod's response: https://medium.com/@rvagg/the-truth-about-rod-vagg-f063f6a53... - as no evidence was ever provided that he was indeed asked to "moderate himself" (read: remove what he posted in a comment on GitHub which was not even ever accused of being incorrect).

The third point is deliberately misleading and you can see for yourself - just see the tweet in question: https://twitter.com/rvagg/status/887652116524707841

Rod twitted no more no less but: "If you've never considered the potential downsides of codes of conduct, here's a good place to start" and posted a link to The Neurodiversity Case for Free Speech by Geoffrey Miller - who is described by Wikipedia as: "Geoffrey F. Miller (born 1965 in Cincinnati, Ohio) is an American evolutionary psychologist, serving as an associate professor of psychology at the University of New Mexico and known for his expertise in sexual selection in human evolution, and for his views on the evolution through sexual selection of the human brain as sexual ornamentation." - see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_Miller_(psychologist)

As you can see, when someone is quoting a very interesting article of a known professor of psychology with the only comment of "If you've never considered the potential downsides of codes of conduct, here's a good place to start" and THEN someone else describes it as: "Rod tweeted in support of an inflammatory anti-Code-of-Conduct article" then it is a deliberate misinformation - but who will take the time to search for the real tweet, follow the article, read it and read about its author? No one. But the rest of the world is already describing Rod as "a person who has generally been standing in the way of making Node.js an inclusive project" because of the mysterious accusations that were later removed - see: https://github.com/ayojs/ayo/issues/4

Now, even if all of the accusations were indeed true and even if they were not blown out of proportion - it all boils down to 3 points:

1. he apologized someone for being censored 2. he didn't respond to self-censorship request fast enough and instead got censored by someone else 3. he twitted a link to an article on Twitter - a medium where no one can censor him unlike on GitHub, an article that (God forbid!) explains the exact same problems that we see here.

See the original accusation and think for yourself - were the actual accusations removed to defend Rod from harassment or to make us think that it must have been serious misbehavior if there was a risk of harassment if anyone knew the facts involved? THAT is the real reason of never talking about the real "crimes". Think about it.

See: https://web.archive.org/web/20170821212745/https://github.co...

> I mean, under the current circumstances, a public, enumerated list of all your supposed crimes is pretty much guaranteed to bring a mob down on your head, and it would probably rocket to the top of Google searches for your name -- regardless of how the process turned out.

See? Even you assumed that those must be something that rod should be ashamed of. Meanwhile it was ONLY those 3 things that I described above. Now, when those were removed, people who google for his name will see articles like "Node.js forks again – this time it's a war of words over anti-sex-pest codes of conduct" and think that he must be a "sex-pest" because all of the actual accusations were (deliberately) removed.

Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was how I viewed it as well. Especially if what Rod said about not being notified about ANY of these items is true. This just appears someone compiled a list of things Rod screwed up, most of which he seemed to own and tried to fix. Maybe my impression is wrong but it just comes off as awful. I tried getting the entire story. I tried reading through the complaints, hunting down tweets and even reading Rod's side…

it just comes off as awful This is why have stopped contributing to OSS in a public fashion over 20 years ago. Nasty backstabbing politics (and in my case, there was actually a business purpose behind it, unlike most of this drama) People online are awful and the veil of anonymity and distance brings out the worst in people. Fuck that.

HAVE YOU EVEN SEEN THE ACCUSATIONS? HERE IT IS:

https://web.archive.org/web/20170821212745/https://github.co...

1. "Rod’s first action was to apologize to a contributor who had been repeatedly moderated"

2. "Rod did not moderate himself when asked by another foundation director"

3. "Rod tweeted in support of an inflammatory anti-Code-of-Conduct article"

NOW ASK YOURSELF: Why was those points removed? Supposedly to save Rod from harassment. But right now EVERYONE speculates what serious bad behavior it must have been that leaving it in the public could lead to harassment! NO ONE would EVER imagine that HE'S #1 BAD BEHAVIOR WAS APOLOGIZING!!!

The second one was not removing his comment THAT DIDN'T INCLUDE ANYTHING RUDE, OFFENSIVE or in ANY WAY unacceptable, while NO EVIDENCE was ever provided that would demonstrate that he was even asked to do so!

The third point is DELIBERATELY MISLEADING. In fact Rod tweeted NO MORE NO LESS: "If you've never considered the potential downsides of codes of conduct, here's a good place to start" and posted a link to The Neurodiversity Case for Free Speech ARTICLE by A KNOWN PSYCHOLOGIST Geoffrey Miller - "an American evolutionary psychologist, serving as an associate professor of psychology at the University of New Mexico and known for his expertise in sexual selection in human evolution" (Wikipedia) THAT WAS DESCRIBED AS: "tweeted in support of an inflammatory anti-Code-of-Conduct article"

NOW ASK YOURSELF: was the actual accusations, the 3 worst things that Rod ever did, removed to save Rod from harassment? Or to make us all speculate of what crimes it must have been that he could be harassed if anyone knew what he did? FOOD FOR THOUGHT.

.

REFERENCES:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15176562

https://medium.com/@rvagg/the-truth-about-rod-vagg-f063f6a53...

https://twitter.com/rvagg/status/887652116524707841

http://quillette.com/2017/07/18/neurodiversity-case-free-spe...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geoffrey_Miller_(psychologist)

.

SEE ALSO:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15176562

Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#185
post #54

A code of conduct without transparency or due process seems more than dangerous to me. It is the stuff of kangaroo courts and star chambers.

James Snell's reasoning behind hiding the accusations inside the committee deliberations is theoretically sound: to keep Rod from getting harassed. I mean, under the current circumstances, a public, enumerated list of all your supposed crimes is pretty much guaranteed to bring a mob down on your head, and it would probably rocket to the top of Google searches for your name -- regardless of how the process turned out.…

He makes it sound as if he was unable to even know what he was being accused of in order to defend himself. He should be apart of that process even if it is in private.

Not being allowed to criticize something is the first red flag, for me personally, that the idea is likely to be worthless. There shouldn't be any debate about whether or not an idea can be criticized and the people in this thread who seem to be ok with firing/excluding a person because of their opinion... man that is just bizarro-land to me.

Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#186
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it just comes off as awful This is why have stopped contributing to OSS in a public fashion over 20 years ago. Nasty backstabbing politics (and in my case, there was actually a business purpose behind it, unlike most of this drama) People online are awful and the veil of anonymity and distance brings out the worst in people. Fuck that.

HAVE YOU EVEN SEEN THE ACCUSATIONS? HERE IT IS: https://web.archive.org/web/20170821212745/https://github.co... 1. "Rod’s first action was to apologize to a contributor who had been repeatedly moderated" 2. "Rod did not moderate himself when asked by another foundation director" 3. "Rod tweeted in support of an inflammatory anti-Code-of-Conduct article" NOW ASK YOURSELF: Why was those points removed? Supposedly to sa…

!!! UPDATE !!!

The Node's Code of Conduct was originally copied from:

https://www.contributor-covenant.org/

which has FEMINIST colors and explicitly link to extreme FEMINIST website: the so called Geek Feminism wiki, that fights to introduce 50% women (of course feminists) to every software project, NOT BASED ON SKILLS which is explicitly stated on the website.

If you read more closely you will not only see obvious links to FEMINISM but also to MARXISM. At this point it should be no surprise that they are fighting with "white men" that they hate using their own made-up language like cisheteronormative bias etc.

ONE OF THE FEMINISTS FROM NODE WERE ACCUSED OF MUCH WORST VIOLATIONS THAN ROD VAGG AND THEY ARE ALREADY MAKING EXCUSES:

>>> Multiple CoC violations by Node.js board member Ashley Williams https://www.reddit.com/r/node/comments/6whs2e/multiple_coc_v...

WARNING: there is RASIST and SEXIST language quoted in the tweets written by Ashley Williams, promoting GENOCIDE and forced CASTRATION but apparently that is nothing compared to an innocent tweet by Rod Vagg.

Now DON'T BE SURPRISED!

FEMINISM is like MARXISM (and in fact there are very strong links between the two).

This is CLASS CONFLICT. Like MARXISTS don't want EQUAL RIGHTS for the CAPITALIST - they just want to TAKE OVER what they achieved. THE SAME IS HERE.

So PEOPLE!!! Don't be surprised if you let those FEMINIST "CODE OF CONDUCTS" into your projects!!!

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