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Why Cutting Carbs Is So Tough

nytimes.com

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Re: Why Cutting Carbs Is So Tough

#181
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Sir, _YOU_ are factually wrong. The long term effects of Keto are FAR from being understood. OTOH, All of our ancestors ate carbs, and our bodies evolved to support diets that included carbs from various sources. You should make it absolutely clear that you're advocating a position based on your personal opinion, and not scientific consensus. This is far from being settled. Our understanding of human metabolism i…

[The] statements you make above don't actually address the claims he made. While a certain diet/lifestyle may be controversial, the specific claims he made about carbs are well established by medical science, and are not controversial.

Err, they said this

> And carb deficiency is not associated with any impairment or disease.

This is an entirely false statement. Different people have different reactions to carbohydrate restriction based on genetics, past diet, medical issues, environmental factors, and a boatload of other well understood reasons.

Re: Why Cutting Carbs Is So Tough

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure this varies between people, but for me, moderation in carbs doesn't work. Having a small scoop of ice cream or a little bit of pasta is completely unsatisfying, and in fact ignites a craving to stuff my face until my stomach hurts. It's like telling an alcoholic to just have one glass of wine a day-- yeah that would be great if it works, but it's not really helpful advice for some people.

Not sure I would equate that to alcoholism. How about rather than a scoop of ice cream every day. You have a bowl of it on Friday night watching a movie? Rest of the week, eat healthier. It's all about calories consumed, and used. You want to eat a ton of ice cream, go for it. Just be aware you've used up all of your caloric intake for the day.

The ways that foods can harm our bodies goes far beyond whether or not you consume too many calories and gain weight.

You could get most of your calories from table sugar and not gain weight if you do the math correctly. But this diet will eventually severely damage the hormonal regulation in your body.

Re: Why Cutting Carbs Is So Tough

#183
post #122
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their advice is wrong and deadly. https://www.amazon.com/Dr-Bernsteins-Diabetes-Solution-Achie...

> Their advice is wrong and deadly. Are you saying that "She's had several endocrinologists tell her that she needs to eat carbohydrates" is wrong and deadly? (There seems to be no other advice in mcone's post https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14812819 to which you are responding.) If so, are you adducing the book you link as your evidence? Without knowing anything about that book or its author, I think that it's…

> Without knowing anything about that book or its author...

He is a well-known proponent of cutting carbs for all diabetics, even Type 1's, see his Wikipedia entry for an intro [1]. He's been open about his own Type 1, and:

"As of 2006, Bernstein had an HDL cholesterol of 118, LDL of 53, Triglycerides of 45, and average blood sugar of 83 mg/dl.[3] By 2008, at 74 years of age, Bernstein had surpassed the life expectancy of type 1 diabetics."

I wouldn't go as far as to say any carbohydrates is "wrong and deadly". However, OP you're responding to is correct: there is a metabolic pathway [2] that generates the necessary carbohydrates from fats and proteins in your diet if you don't eat enough. There are challenges with the ketogenic diet if not carefully followed, and it doesn't work for everyone [3].

0.14% of the diabetic population have qualified for a diagnosis of complete remission [4]. There is no cure, but some Type 2's can manage without medication and still diagnostically show no sign of Type 2 via blood glucose and HbA1c tests; those that maintain it for over a couple of years qualify as complete remission. I've found more of these people or diabetics approaching that level of control at the Diabetes Daily site than any other location on the Net [5]. Overwhelmingly, carb restriction is the first go-to they recommend all newly-diagnosed who want to join this small club try as among the first treatment protocols. Even many Type 1's report benefiting from not requiring nearly as much insulin after restricting carbs. It's worth investigating, if only to rule it out if it doesn't happen to work for your wife.

Good luck with your wife's Type 1.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_K._Bernstein

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluconeogenesis

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketogenic_diet

[4] http://www.diabetes.org/research-and-practice/patient-access...

[5] https://www.diabetesdaily.com/

Re: Why Cutting Carbs Is So Tough

#184
post #103
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> your body needs a fair amount of carbs every day This is factually wrong. The human body ~100 grams of protein, ~10 grams of fat, and zero carbs to stay healthy. The minimal amount of glucose required for brain function can be synthesized from protein intake. And carb deficiency is not associated with any impairment or disease.

> The human body ~100 grams of protein, ~10 grams of fat, and zero carbs to stay healthy Could you provide source (studies not blogposts or youtube videos) on this matter? Also what is your opinion on 80/10/10 or Okinawa diet? Okinavians used to get most of their calories from carbs and they had one of the longest lifespans in the world. All things considered I am not against the keto diet but the food that people on…

The Okinawans got their carbohydrates primarily from vegetables with a low glycemic index, primarily the imo sweet potato (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-buettner/okinawa-blue-zone...). They also consumed a decent amount of Omega-3 fatty acides, since they ate fish three times a week; fish that was likely not contaminated with mercury or factory farmed. It's worth noting that once sugar and refined carbohydrates were introduced into their diet, they went from having the highest longevity out of 47 prefectures in Japan to the 26th (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/3342882/Japanese...). That article came out 10 years ago, and the situation is worse now (haven't been able to find any written sources for this, but it's explained in the documentary 'Sugar Coated').

As a counter to the Okinawans, we can look at the Maasai people of northern Africa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maasai_people#Diet, who exclusively ate meat, milk and blood from cattle yet had no incidence of heart disease, cancer, tooth decay, or obesity.

I think the point here is that we haven't really honed in on what exact macronutrient composition is the perfect one for a human body. Humans appear to adapt well to any macronutrient composition, as shown above by the diets of different cultures (I think if you took a global survey in 1900 of what different societies were eating, you would find all manner of different diets but very low rates of disease in all or most of them). What we have identified is that we're seeing unprecedented levels of cancer, obesity, alzheimers and cardiovascular disease. So the question to ask is "What changed in the past 50 years?" I would say it's a few things (ordered by severity):

1. Sugar. We don't need sugar to survive, yet we eat mountains of it.

2. Refined, high GI carbohydrates.

3. Vegetable oils. Seed oils like canola, sunflower, or palm oil (not Olive/Avocado/Coconut oil) are high in pro-inflammatory Omega-6 fatty acids and polyunsaturated fats.

4. Factory farmed meats, also high in Omega-6 fatty acids.

You can find counterexamples to any macronutrient focused diet, as we did above, but there doesn't exist a society that consumes sugar, refined carbohydrates, or vegetable oils in abundance and still lives long, disease free lives. To date, there is no counterexample that says the modern western diet is in any way healthy.

Regarding the studies you mention, I don't doubt that heavily processed meats like bacon and sausages are bad for you, though it's because of the Omega-6 fatty acids in factory farmed meats which are known cause arterial inflammation and contribute to atherosclerosis (grass fed beef, pork, or pastured chicken does not have this problem). That said, I am heavily skeptical of any studies that show 'links' to cancer. Just because two things correlate doesn't mean that one causes the other. Nutritional studies are notoriously difficult to conduct accurately, and have been plagued with bad logic (correlation != causation), bad statistics, and perverse incentives (such as the incentive to reach an interesting conclusion or risk losing government funding) or conflicts of interest (being funded by the sugar industry or big pharma). You ask for a good source (not blogposts/youtube videos) on what the OP posted; in kind, could you link to the studies that you're talking about?

Re: Why Cutting Carbs Is So Tough

#185
post #72
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That diets like paleo and keto work is pretty strong counter evidence to this position.

The only diet that works is caloric restriction. You can follow any fad diet you want, but if you don't expend more calories than you ingest you're not going to lose weight. Replace all the carbs in your equilibrium diet with the same amount of fat per mass and you're going to start gaining weight. It's as simple as that.

Not everyone changes their diet exclusively to lose weight. Some people would rather prevent medical issues, and or increase their well-being. This fixation on the calories in - calories out ignores all of this and is detrimental to people's health.

Further, many people would rather not have to track their calories everyday for the rest of their lives in order to maintain a healthy diet. They'd rather condition their body to prefer healthy foods, and to prefer healthy quantities of healthy foods. To do that you have to look at the source of the calories, not just the amount of calories.

Re: Why Cutting Carbs Is So Tough

#186

There's a lot of people here who are really into this, but this is really the opinion of a minority of nutrionists, without a large body of scientific evidence supporting them. Low-carb diets are being sold to the public on a ridiculous premise: the quality of foods can be identified based on their major macronutrients, and "carbs" consists of a coherent group of foods. This is ridiculous because it lumps refined sug…

Just want to mention that there are always people who don't read the literature or properly follow a "diet plan" for lack of a better word to call it.

If you are doing the Ketogenic diet, right at the end of Gary Taubes' book entitled "Why we get fat and what to do about it" which is about the diet (and is the same the guy who wrote the linked article) it says this about your daily diet in regards to vegetables:

    FOODS THAT MUST BE EATEN EVERY DAY:
Salad Greens: 2 cups a day. Includes arugula, bok choy, cabbage (all varieties), chard, chives, endive, greens (all varieties, including beet, collards, mustard, and turnip), kale, lettuce (all varieties), parsley, spinach, radicchio, radishes, scallions, and watercress. (If it is a leaf, you may eat it.)

Vegetables: 1 cup (measured uncooked) a day. Includes artichokes, asparagus, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, cauliflower, celery, cucumber, eggplant, green beans (string beans), jicama, leeks, mushrooms, okra, onions, peppers, pumpkin, shallots, snow peas, sprouts (bean and alfalfa), sugar snap peas, summer squash, tomatoes, rhubarb, wax beans, zucchini.

The vegetables that he says you need to stay away from: "...“starchy” vegetables such as slow-cooked beans (pinto, lima, black beans), carrots, parsnips, corn, peas, potatoes, French fries, potato chips."

So clearly the guy who wouldn't eat lettuce didn't do his research or just heard "to cut all carbs is what you must do".

The book is a great read, very enlightening, and I've successfully done Keto several times and lost a lot of weight and body fat using it, all the while feeling better. I surely do not eat that many vegetables a day, if any, because I hate most allowed vegetables (I just have Caesar salads occasionally), but I still manage to feel good and lose weight. This feels like a lot of vegetables suggested for a "meat only" viewed diet, and it seems like more than I'm sure most people eat daily anyways, which I guess is probably sad, but hey.

One last pitch for reading the book, it's essentially just science of the body and fat and talk about the history of various studies and how they relate to the science you just learned until the very end where in the appendix it basically says, ok here is how you actually do it, if you didn't figure it out by now (at least that's how I remember it).

Re: Why Cutting Carbs Is So Tough

#187
post #4

Because they are delicious. Life is too short, not to enjoy one of life's simple pleasures. Obviously moderation is key, but it's silly not to take advantage of being human.

This is easy to say when you're young.

But as someone currently watching his parents and grandparents suffer from the long-term effects of a lifetime of obesity and poor diet, these things can have long term consequences that don't catch up with you until it's too late.

Re: Why Cutting Carbs Is So Tough

#188

There's a lot of people here who are really into this, but this is really the opinion of a minority of nutrionists, without a large body of scientific evidence supporting them. Low-carb diets are being sold to the public on a ridiculous premise: the quality of foods can be identified based on their major macronutrients, and "carbs" consists of a coherent group of foods. This is ridiculous because it lumps refined sug…

> lettuce is a carb

The typical advice I've seen is to limit 'net carbs' which is the difference between the total carbohydrates and 'dietary fiber'.

Also, a serving of lettuce contains a very small amount of carbs, e.g. 1.2 g per cup for butterhead lettuce. Low carb diets seem to usually consist of less than 50 g of 'net carbs' per day so eating even lots of lettuce seems entirely compatible with them.

Overall tho, nutrition just seems like an inherently 'causally dense' subject, i.e. there are lots of seemingly plausible explanations for any phenomenon. Maybe there is no one simple explanation for everyone everywhere, in general.

Re: Why Cutting Carbs Is So Tough

#190

Preface: Over the past 12+ years I have spent a fair amount of time learning about foods/diets, at first to try to get rid of my acne (which I was successful at), but then later to stay lean and stop any diet-related dips in my mood (which I was also successful at). What I want to say: Cutting carbs is difficult for most people because of two things: 1) withdrawal from the sugar-high that you get from eating high-gly…

What dietary changes did you make to get rid of your acne? I've experimented with a few things and have had relatively good success, but a purely dietary method seems healthier.
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