O’Reilly Media has stopped retailing books directly on its ecommerce store • Hacker News Board

Re: O’Reilly Media has stopped retailing books directly on its ecommerce store

#181

Post by ghaff » Thu, Jun 29, 2017, 2:21 PM UTC

clumsysmurf wrote: post #67

SomeHacker44 wrote: post #52

Sent this to Support at O'Reilly after reading their (to me, insane) e-mail. Hi O'Reilly, Just so you know - you've completely lost a customer. After years - decades really - of a highly dedicated customer (whose friends have written books you have published) you threw it all down the drain in one e-mail. I will never purchase another book published by O'Reilly, or any company associated with O'Reilly, or associated…

As a Lightroom user myself, I'm a bit worried about that. Since the subscription model began, Lightroom seems to have languished a bit - and its been years since a standalone release. Lets hope Affinity can put out a competitive DAM tool.

In all fairness, for me at least, Lightroom seems to have gotten to a place where it does what it needs to do with acceptable performance. It doesn't seem to have a lot of obvious functionality holes.Of course, it also doesn't have a lot of competition which may partially explain the pace of change too.

If I had to guess, I suspect Lightroom will end up as only a subscription offering at some point. It's hard to see why it would remain an outlier. I'm sure there would be great hue and cry but I actually use it enough that I wouldn't be all that bothered.

Re: O’Reilly Media has stopped retailing books directly on its ecommerce store

#182

Post by TY » Thu, Jun 29, 2017, 2:23 PM UTC

Very disappointed by this decision. I have been a customer of OReilly for about 20 years, buying ebooks since 2009. I really liked DRM free nature of their ebooks, so that I could read them on all of my devices.

Maybe decision makes sense from economic perspective. But they really have to consider who their audience is. These are the people who still complain that Google Reader was killed and loss of good will and PR consequences of this decision will come to haunt them for years, regardless of the current financial reality.

Re: O’Reilly Media has stopped retailing books directly on its ecommerce store

#183

Post by ivanr » Thu, Jun 29, 2017, 2:26 PM UTC

currysausage wrote: post #173

ivanr wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they're print-on-demand books, printed by Lightning Source (the last time I checked). They're not cheap to print, at least not at the list price; I don't know what deal O'Reilly might have. However, they're vastly more convenient because Lightning Source will ship them directly to retailers so publishers don't need warehouses. If I'd have to guess, I'd say that O'Reilly might be printing a small initial batch fo…

My "JavaScript Definitive Guide" ordered from Amazon.de (and printed by Lightning Source UK, if I recall correctly) was of shocking quality too. I returned it and got a more expensive copy from my local bookstore, printed by Lightning Source International. Very sharp type.

That's generally a big problem with print-on-demand: they literally print one copy at a time, so you have to rely on the printer to do quality control well. Even if you're checking regularly (as we did in the early days), you can never know if the next copy they print will be bad in some way. Not to mention that they also have multiple facilities, so you'd have to place orders all over the world.

There's also a separate problem of pirated printed books, which are of very poor quality.

Re: O’Reilly Media has stopped retailing books directly on its ecommerce store

#184

Post by gglitch » Thu, Jun 29, 2017, 2:29 PM UTC

justanton wrote: post #172

I am a Safari subscriber, however I use it only for quick reference or for watching videos. I've never read a whole book on Safari only for one reason: the HTML formatting in the browser (as well as in the Queue app) is terrible. It still amazes me, how a publisher such as O'Reilly, who by definition should be aware of importance of such things as typography, almost entirely neglected this in Safari. Books in Safari…

I'm puzzled by this. I'm reading /Introducing Elixir, 2nd Edition/ online right now in Firefox on a Mac, and it looks fantastic. Beautifully formatted.

Re: O’Reilly Media has stopped retailing books directly on its ecommerce store

#185

Post by tomku » Thu, Jun 29, 2017, 2:29 PM UTC

I used to buy a lot of O'Reilly ebooks, always DRM-free directly from them. I thought they had a great business model and they published quite a few excellent books. They've slowly lost me as a customer over the past few years as those two characteristics have disappeared. Other publishers have more consistent quality, better coverage of new tech and better pricing. This just adds "access to DRM-free downloadable files" to the list of things that other publishers do better.

It'll be interesting to see how having all of their digital content locked behind Safari will affect their ability to attract authors. Maybe it'll work out well for them overall, who knows.

Re: O’Reilly Media has stopped retailing books directly on its ecommerce store

#186

Post by gregjwild » Thu, Jun 29, 2017, 2:40 PM UTC

walterbell wrote: post #63

Lendal wrote: post #24

I'm a Safari online subscriber myself, but I think this decision is a huge mistake. I also own books that I purchased from O'Reilly and I still use those books. Just because I don't continue to re-purchase them doesn't mean I don't use them or will never purchase another. I use them on a daily basis. I also use Safari on a daily basis. Why can't they see that there is a need for both models? I rent things, and I own…

Online reading enables tracking, the data has value.

Data has value, but not as much value as repeat customer loyalty.

Re: O’Reilly Media has stopped retailing books directly on its ecommerce store

#187

Post by gregjwild » Thu, Jun 29, 2017, 2:41 PM UTC

myth_drannon wrote: post #30

troydj wrote: post #10

One of the things I'll miss is the "upgrade a registered O'Reilly print book to an ebook for $4.99" option. Always nice to have both the print and [affordable] ebook versions. Bummer.

Manning gives that you for free

We also allow eBook customers to upgrade to a print book for $12 plus shipping - https://www.manning.com/ebooks

Re: O’Reilly Media has stopped retailing books directly on its ecommerce store

#188

Post by fnord123 » Thu, Jun 29, 2017, 2:44 PM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #109

throwaway2016a wrote: post #21

O'Reilly author here. This is the email we got today. Sounds like they also plan to offer courses through Safari as well. ------------------------- I'm writing to let you know about some changes—including new opportunities for you—at O'Reilly. First, as of today, we are discontinuing fulfillment of individual book and video purchases on shop.oreilly.com. Books (both ebook and print) will still be available for sale v…

Netflix and Spotify operate completely different business models, and their customer base has completely different needs and requirements. They're also much cheaper. Safari has always been an also-ran side platform. The "growth of subscribers" on Safari may exceed direct sales, but what's driving that growth? Is it really because Safari is Just That Awesome? Does the management team have any idea? This is a classic e…

>This is a classic example of a business with a reputation for treating its customers with respect deciding to trash that reputation by treating its customers and content developers as livestock that can be farmed and sweated.

I take it you've never attended an O'Reilly conference. They really are trash.

Re: O’Reilly Media has stopped retailing books directly on its ecommerce store

#189

Post by yellow_postit » Thu, Jun 29, 2017, 3:03 PM UTC

heartbreak wrote: post #68

SomeHacker44 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(It's the "touch bar" that made this my last Apple laptop until they get rid of it, but true, the keyboard is pretty darn bad too.)

Isn't that an optional feature?

Sadly no, it's forced on every pro model except the lowest spec one.

Re: O’Reilly Media has stopped retailing books directly on its ecommerce store

#190

Post by JeremyBanks » Thu, Jun 29, 2017, 3:15 PM UTC

clumsysmurf wrote: post #50

kin wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon sells Kindle versions so there's DRM. But, Google Play store offers PDF and ePub versions of O'Reilly books.

There are significant problems with both options. For Amazon, when you buy an eBook, you are essentially given a license to use it. Amazon can revoke that - we've all heard of people moving to another country to see their entire library disappear, only (hopefully) remedied after enough hell was raised on some website. As for Play Books, lets imagine you are a Android developer working on the next great thing, and you…

> we've all heard of people moving to another country to see their entire library disappear

Have we? I've moved between countries and updated my Amazon account a couple of times, and still have everything. It sounds like you're taking about a bug, not licensing.