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A Slow-Motion Trainwreck Facing the Meal-Kit Industry

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Re: A Slow-Motion Trainwreck Facing the Meal-Kit Industry

#181

Post by PKop »

fusiongyro wrote: post #123
Mz wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On your subtext What subtext are you imagining my comment as having? Because I strongly suspect you are inferring things that simply are not there.

I thought you were suggesting that life was better when we had a sole breadwinner and a stay-at-home wife. I don't agree with that and read your comment uncharitably that way. On rereading it, I think you're saying there are two optimal points on this curve: having a live-in cook ("the wife") and going to a restaurant, and most of the stuff in the middle is pointless. I don't agree with that either but it's less of a…

I wonder if you've considered that, in some respects, for some people, it was better, or would be and is better?

Or, assuming a couple could choose their roles, or even have the option of a stay-at-home mom, they wouldn't jump at the chance?

Is it that hard to believe that not being required to have to full time wage earners and no-one to handle at home duties vs. having a more complete division of labor, might actually work out well overall for both people's happiness?

Re: A Slow-Motion Trainwreck Facing the Meal-Kit Industry

#183

Post by fusiongyro »

PKop wrote: post #181
fusiongyro wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought you were suggesting that life was better when we had a sole breadwinner and a stay-at-home wife. I don't agree with that and read your comment uncharitably that way. On rereading it, I think you're saying there are two optimal points on this curve: having a live-in cook ("the wife") and going to a restaurant, and most of the stuff in the middle is pointless. I don't agree with that either but it's less of a…

I wonder if you've considered that, in some respects, for some people, it was better, or would be and is better? Or, assuming a couple could choose their roles, or even have the option of a stay-at-home mom, they wouldn't jump at the chance? Is it that hard to believe that not being required to have to full time wage earners and no-one to handle at home duties vs. having a more complete division of labor, might actua…

Obviously it did work out better for some people, and some people continue to do it today. And it's unfortunate that the people who live this lifestyle today are missing many of the social supports that would have made it easier back then: a housewife in every home on the street for support, milkmen, society basically trusting kids to amuse themselves and get to school on their own, etc.

But, I think it's easy to romanticize those aspects and ignore what happened to people who had kids out of wedlock, people who did not want that lifestyle but were forced into it, kids who grew up isolated, institutional racism, what happened to mixed couples, etc. During the magical 50s, my grandfather was disowned by his family for marrying a non-Jew, was denied a job at DuPont for being a Jew, my stay-at-home grandmother couldn't work despite having a chemistry degree, and my mother contemplated suicide just from sheer loneliness growing up fairly isolated.

So yeah, it worked out great for some people. And it didn't work out for other people. And that's basically the situation we're in now, except that today, there's a lot less social stigma associated to people living the life they want to live rather than the one their family or their society wants them to live.

I just think compared to what was wrong with the 50s, the situation today is obviously better. Yeah, it sucks figuring out dinner sometimes, but there's really no comparison.

Re: A Slow-Motion Trainwreck Facing the Meal-Kit Industry

#184

Post by manarth »

ghaff wrote: post #31
illumin8 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've tried BlueApron and HelloFresh. I enjoy cooking, and the quality of the recipes is great, but damn, it takes too long to make their recipes. Often, they promise it only takes 15-30 minutes for an entire meal, but apparently I'm not a professional chef who can wash vegetables, dice them, prepare marinades, chop garlic, and do all of this in just a few minutes. I end up usually spending between 60-90 minutes just…

Yours is a pretty common complaint though some of the services seem to focus more on reducing prep time than others. I imagine there's some tradeoff between freshness and the amount of pre-processing. The cynic in me also wonders if the nature of the product doesn't create incentives for fussy recipes with a lot of ingredients, including uncommon ones. If your recipe is just a filet of trout sauteed in butter with so…

  I wonder if the nature of the product creates incentives for fussy recipes with a lot of ingredients
You make a good point, and I wonder whether this could be mitigated by balancing some simple recipes (which lets the cook deliver with minimum effort - including the work of shopping/planning) with some deliberately complex recipes (pushing the cook to learn, experiment with new techniques, and push their comfort-zone).

Personally, that approach would resound well for me, but I'm conscious that I might not be the ideal viable demographic.

Re: A Slow-Motion Trainwreck Facing the Meal-Kit Industry

#185

Post by pm90 »

criddell wrote: post #92
illumin8 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've tried BlueApron and HelloFresh. I enjoy cooking, and the quality of the recipes is great, but damn, it takes too long to make their recipes. Often, they promise it only takes 15-30 minutes for an entire meal, but apparently I'm not a professional chef who can wash vegetables, dice them, prepare marinades, chop garlic, and do all of this in just a few minutes. I end up usually spending between 60-90 minutes just…

> Granted, the food is much healthier than restaurant food I wouldn't automatically grant that. I cook Blue Apron with my teen-aged kids and it's fantastic. I've become a much better cook while helping them learn how to cook. The recipe cards are a big part of what makes it work for us. I don't always know what medium dice or chop means, but I can pretty much always match what's in the picture.

> I wouldn't automatically grant that.

While this deserves qualifications, most of the time restaurant food is simply not as hygienic as meals prepared at home. And its not some deliberate plan to make it so. Despite their best efforts, a somewhat large scale food establishment just allows a lot more opportunities for food contamination. And I say this as a person who eats out everyday (Lunch out, dinner and supper at home).

The only place I can see that really escapes from this is the high end restaurants. Usually they don't have to rely on cost saving measures, and have well developed supply chains for obtaining fresh ingredients and keeping them from contamination. But I don't think most of the people here could afford or want to eat at such a place regularly.

Re: A Slow-Motion Trainwreck Facing the Meal-Kit Industry

#186

Post by vec »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #14
Mz wrote: post #10

I feel like the real problem with meal-in-a-box delivery services is that they are trying to fill the empty shoes of a missing full-time wife and mom because there are more two career couples and both spouses now "need a wife" and it can't be found. The problem is that such a service has no real hope of taking the place of someone with actual cooking skill who knows you well and will tweak the recipe to your preferen…

> If you can afford a meal-in-a-box service, why would you not just go to a restaurant where the wait staff will do a decent job as a substitute for your own live-in cook previously known as The Wife? I always say that these are for people with more money than time. The reason they don't go to a restaurant is because you like cooking - or at least, you like the idea of being someone who cooks. But the ad copy is righ…

I started using these services (originally Blue Apron; more recently Hello Fresh) with the express goal of learning to cook. I originally planned to continue the service until I had a catalog of recipes I knew I liked and enough skill to do for myself. I met my initial goal six months ago, cancelled my subscription, then restarted it a couple of months after that.

I found that when I had to choose a recipe to cook, I just wouldn't end up doing it. I'd forget, or put it off, or make some excuse. I know I'm happier when I cook, I have enough skill now, and I go to the grocery store at least once a week anyway. But it turns out it just didn't happen most weeks. I ordered pizza or microwaved frozen food or ate out and felt like crap for not eating well.

There's something incredibly powerful about defaults. I'm not paying for recipes and ingredients. I'm paying for someone to tell me "cook this tonight". And I do. I cook more often, eat healthier, and end up happier at the end of the week. And maybe that's not true for everyone, but I'm more than happy to pay an extra $20 or so over sticker cost for the nudge.

Re: A Slow-Motion Trainwreck Facing the Meal-Kit Industry

#187

Post by _delirium »

pjc50 wrote: post #137
pavel_lishin wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you can afford a meal-in-a-box service, why would you not just go to a restaurant where the wait staff will do a decent job as a substitute for your own live-in cook previously known as The Wife? I always say that these are for people with more money than time. The reason they don't go to a restaurant is because you like cooking - or at least, you like the idea of being someone who cooks. But the ad copy is righ…

> you're not a wifemom, and you don't know how to combine those things into a meal I think people could do this, but for whatever reason don't. Possibly the excessive media-isation of cooking has raised what the expected skill level is; people are no longer content with something edible but unspectacular, or food that's too ugly to Instagram. We've come a long way from Fanny Cradock: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9…

Soups are another one of the classic solutions to this problem. A large variety of random leftover ingredients can be mixed-and-matched into a soup, and it solves the stale leftover bread problem too. Plus you can be doing something else while it cooks, as it is not a style of cooking that requires a lot of active attention. And as one more bonus, leftover soup often tastes even better the next day.

Re: A Slow-Motion Trainwreck Facing the Meal-Kit Industry

#188

Post by manarth »

nostrademons wrote: post #156
pavel_lishin wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you can afford a meal-in-a-box service, why would you not just go to a restaurant where the wait staff will do a decent job as a substitute for your own live-in cook previously known as The Wife? I always say that these are for people with more money than time. The reason they don't go to a restaurant is because you like cooking - or at least, you like the idea of being someone who cooks. But the ad copy is righ…

I'm a bit confused by people who say the big benefit of Blue Apron is time. When we tried it, it took about as much time as cooking the meal from scratch - maybe 20 minutes of prep and 20-30 on the oven/stove. Whatever we saved in cutting was lost in opening & sorting through all the individually-wrapped ingredient packages. BTW, a good set of kitchen tools makes meal prep go a lot faster. When I moved in with my now…

I think much of that is around knowing that these tools exist, understanding their benefits (to the point of recognising the ROI in spending the money on a quality knife, a mandolin, etc), and then using them to the point where the ROI starts to pay off.

Re: A Slow-Motion Trainwreck Facing the Meal-Kit Industry

#189

Post by pm90 »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #117
harryh wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll get much faster with practice. I never take more than 45 minutes to prepare a BA meal now and generally do it in about 30. And I'm no professional cook or anything either. Just learned by doing (and watching an occasional YouTube video).

Doing large-scale prep work occasionally, combined with some smart tricks in the morning, really helps as well. E.g. peel, cut and sautée 10 onions, let it cool, divide into 10 bags and freeze. 15 minutes time spent, 10x5 minutes saved on subsequent dinners. Peel, cut and freeze bags of carrot, celery, cabbage, chilies, etc. Another 5 minutes off. Buy canned lentils, chickpeas and beans rather than dry, and you save…

> Buy big bags of proper basmati or jasmine rice at Asian stores, put in cold water to soak in the morning, boil for 10 minutes, perfect rice that mops the floor with Uncle Ben's.

This is like the best advice ever for rice lovers. I made the switch after being underwhelmed by small batch, Indian-named but made in US Basmati rice...it just had no flavor or taste. After using the rice from the bags.... HOLY COW, so much difference in flavor!

Re: A Slow-Motion Trainwreck Facing the Meal-Kit Industry

#190

Post by manarth »

nostrademons wrote: post #165
dragonwriter wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm a bit confused by people who say the big benefit of Blue Apron is time. When we tried it, it took about as much time as cooking the meal from scratch - maybe 20 minutes of prep and 20-30 on the oven/stove. Blue Apron is cooking a meal from scratch (so, obviously, it doesn't save time in cooking.) The time saving is in shopping and inventory management.

Pre-cut & pre-measured ingredients, though, right? At least, that's what I remember their service being like, unless I'm confusing it with another delivery startup. I don't personally get the timesavings of not going to the store, either - my wife or I will go after work, we have a list, it'll take half an hour and then we'll be done for the week. But then I realized that the target market for these services probably…

  "doesn't have a produce market a mile away"
I have a produce market 10 minutes walk from my home - unfortunately, my working patterns prevent me from using it except on extremely rare occasions.

Supermarkets do have much longer opening hours that fit with my working patterns, but sadly don't have the quality of produce as my local farmers' market.

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