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Tesla Autopilot

tesla.com

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Re: Tesla Autopilot

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It terrifies me to think of relying on image recognition software to correctly determine an upcoming crossing road (with cars zipping across) so it can properly slow down, rather than get broadsided at full speed. Or a number of other life-and-death situations (which are common during driving). It just seems fragile (what if the 'vision' is somehow impaired, f.ex. blinded by sunlight, or the road markings are wrong o…

> It terrifies me to think of relying on image recognition software to correctly determine (... snip) Do you not drive using only your eyes? If you are not terrified of the sensors, then software? Turing's central belief was that the human brain was 'just' a computer. Regards doing things like embedding reflectors in roads and other ways to simplify lane holding, completely agree. But we can't forego the cameras etc…

We don't drive with just our eyes. We fuse vision, sound, touch and proprioception. We self-locate easily. Most important though, is we do sophisticated visual, theory of mind and physics based inference.

If you take the example of Chess, humans and machines play very different styles. Computers replace predictive understanding with excellent memory and fast search.

Similarly for cars, we want to replace the lack of a powerful predictive model with some compensatory mechanism, such as sophisticated sensors. The problem is that, even with faster reaction times, better sensors and fuller awareness, these cars' compensatory abilities against a lack of powerful predictive models are still far from sufficient.

At this point in time, a car with more sensors and failsafes to augment the human against collision is safer than a self-driving car that depends on a lack of lapses of attention. That depends on proper behavior in the customer. Even dividing tasks, with the human controlling the steering (but allowing the car to takeover when highly certain of danger) and the car controlling acceleration would be safer. This set up acknowledges the human propensity to mind wander when attention is not engaged.

Until self-driving cars no longer require human rescue in difficult situations, one can't rightly say that self-driving software are better drivers than humans.

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#182
post #55

I don't think these autopilot systems will work well in crowded cities or cities with poor infrastructure for roads. The amount of objects for detecting and avoiding will be way too high. The tests shows almost clear conditions for driving. This should be tested on streets of NY or a busy city like Mumbai

Check GM autopilot demos in the streets of San Francisco. Much more impressive than this one. Pedestrians, bicycles, delivery van stopped in the middle of the street, etc.

daytime: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSc8AHIEG9o

night time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHIq0MMViZg

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#183

This is quite interesting, I hadn't seen or heard about their intention to restrict like this, prior reading it tonight: "Please note also that using a self-driving Tesla for car sharing and ride hailing for friends and family is fine, but doing so for revenue purposes will only be permissible on the Tesla Network, details of which will be released next year."

I don't think our legal system should allow car manufacturers to impose these kinds of restrictions on cars fully owned by their operators. If I have the title on my vehicle, I should be able to use it in any legal capacity. This restriction is an attack on the fundamental ideas of ownership and property.

I wonder if it's to prevent the following scenario in the future, where the self-driving capabilities are perfect and legal: rich people buy as many Model 3's as possible, and deploy their own taxi fleet. Each one pays itself off in 4-6 months (est ~$15/hr, can operate 24/7), and generate lots of passive income forever.

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It terrifies me to think of relying on image recognition software to correctly determine (... snip) Do you not drive using only your eyes? If you are not terrified of the sensors, then software? Turing's central belief was that the human brain was 'just' a computer. Regards doing things like embedding reflectors in roads and other ways to simplify lane holding, completely agree. But we can't forego the cameras etc…

The thing is, human "machine vision" has graceful failure modes. You don't switch from seeing cars to seeing nothing to seeing an elephant just because the input got a little noisy. The same cannot be said about current ML demonstrations - because they operate on just vision. Humans continuously reconcile visual input with their model of the world and with other inputs, to the point of overriding visual data if neede…

I'm not sure the teslas are going to be trained to see elephants either!

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#185
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would guess that if you gave the command to drive home, you would be seen as the operator of the vehicle and would probably receive a DUI. If there is an emergency and the automobile needs human intervention, then you would be responsible.

Yeah. When I was in J-school, I covered a court case where a man was convicted of DUI when the cops found him asleep in the back seat of a car with the engine running. He knew he was too drunk to drive and decided to sleep it off in the back. It was a cold winter night so he turned on the engine to run the heater. He got convicted because being inside the vehicle with the engine running met the definition of "operati…

That's terrible.

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"All Tesla vehicles have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver." In the Model S configuration page, "enhanced autopilot" and "full self-driving capability" are still optional extras that together cost $8,000, so I'm not sure what they're talking about here. https://www.tesla.com/models/design

All Teslas come with the hardware needed. The $8000 enables the software.

No. Source: owner of a 2013 Model S

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#187
post #64

Watch this at 0.25x speed or slower to see what's going on. This is a carefully chosen environment. Every place it drives has very clear highway centerline markings. It seems to be highly dependent on those for guidance. Sometimes it can't quite identify the road edge, but the centerline provides a position reference. The inputs seem to be road line recognition, optical flow for the road, and solid object recognition…

It terrifies me to think of relying on image recognition software to correctly determine an upcoming crossing road (with cars zipping across) so it can properly slow down, rather than get broadsided at full speed. Or a number of other life-and-death situations (which are common during driving). It just seems fragile (what if the 'vision' is somehow impaired, f.ex. blinded by sunlight, or the road markings are wrong o…

Seriously? Do you want to spend an incredibly huge amount of money to put magnets to delimit lanes all around the world?When there are so many roads without any clear painted lane marking, when the paint itself fades away in an handful of years and the magnets will last a couple of years at best ONLY if embedded in the asphalt, that means spending 100 times the amount of money above. And when in 2-3 years time we very likely will have self-driving cars far safer than humans. IMHO is pure nonsense. It will be a clusterfuck order of magnitudes worse than the British building thousands of km of canals when after 20-30 years the rails were dominating transportation. But at least they have the excuse that they didn't know what was coming, and 20-30 years is an order of magnitude longer than 2-3 years. Furthermore they spent an infinitesimal fraction of what you propose to spend.

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It terrifies me to think of relying on image recognition software to correctly determine (... snip) Do you not drive using only your eyes? If you are not terrified of the sensors, then software? Turing's central belief was that the human brain was 'just' a computer. Regards doing things like embedding reflectors in roads and other ways to simplify lane holding, completely agree. But we can't forego the cameras etc…

The thing is, human "machine vision" has graceful failure modes. You don't switch from seeing cars to seeing nothing to seeing an elephant just because the input got a little noisy. The same cannot be said about current ML demonstrations - because they operate on just vision. Humans continuously reconcile visual input with their model of the world and with other inputs, to the point of overriding visual data if neede…

> You don't switch from seeing cars to seeing nothing to seeing an elephant just because the input got a little noisy

yeah, instead you get hallucinations, muscle twitches, seizures, mental breaks and many more ways a brain can fail to do it's job.

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, human "machine vision" has graceful failure modes. You don't switch from seeing cars to seeing nothing to seeing an elephant just because the input got a little noisy. The same cannot be said about current ML demonstrations - because they operate on just vision. Humans continuously reconcile visual input with their model of the world and with other inputs, to the point of overriding visual data if neede…

> You don't switch from seeing cars to seeing nothing to seeing an elephant just because the input got a little noisy yeah, instead you get hallucinations, muscle twitches, seizures, mental breaks and many more ways a brain can fail to do it's job.

Sure, but a) we have thousands of years of experience with those, and b) none of those are caused by little random noise in the visual input. Brains are incredibly robust against noisy data.

Re: Tesla Autopilot

#190
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, human "machine vision" has graceful failure modes. You don't switch from seeing cars to seeing nothing to seeing an elephant just because the input got a little noisy. The same cannot be said about current ML demonstrations - because they operate on just vision. Humans continuously reconcile visual input with their model of the world and with other inputs, to the point of overriding visual data if neede…

I'm not sure the teslas are going to be trained to see elephants either!

You don't necessarily have to train it to see elephants, but Neural Networks fail in pretty interesting ways. This that are very obvious to you and I have the ability to confuse a CNN[1].

[1] - http://www.evolvingai.org/fooling

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