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Walmart's effort to get customers to build up their savings accounts

theatlantic.com

181–190 of 222 posts

Re: Walmart's effort to get customers to build up their savings accounts

#181

Kind of fucked up that the article doesn't mention the fees associated with these cards until like 3/4 of the way into the article. These cards charge 5 bucks a month, plus like 3 dollars to deposit cash, 3 dollars to withdraw cash, in addition to the 5-10 dollars up front for the card itself. Because of this, a person using this type of card can easily spend $100+ a year on fees. Not exactly a great way to save mone…

And yet, thousands of people who started using the cards have increased their savings more than they would have otherwise. Yes a credit union is preferable, but the point is that this demographic of people wasn't using them (or regular banks) and that these cards have encouraged better behavior through a new psychological angle. If the net result is positive, I wouldn't get hung up on the fees.

Re: Walmart's effort to get customers to build up their savings accounts

#182

Slighlty offtopic - but why are not debit cards popular in US. A card in which you put money and withdraw/pay untill they ran out. No overdraft/credit/direct debit bullshit to be concerned with. They are perfect solutions for the poor and underbanked... whatever that means. Small fees, small charges, impossible to rack gazzilion dollars in penalty fees.

They are, but only kind of. Most places give you a MasterCard Debit or a Visa Debit. Its just linked directly to your bank account.

They (the banks) pass the security and processing to the CC systems instead of a unified debit network (that is still around).

When I got my first fancy visa debit i was told if i used it as a debit card, I'd get charged 25 cents, but if used it as credit there were no transaction fees. This was back in 2001-2 ?

I bank with a local(ish) bank that is growing, I have a free checking account and have for a very long time. They've also been really good to be about waiving fees, etc, though part of that is being on a legacy account older than I am. However other friends and family have reasonably similar experiences.

They're also still offering a free checking account: https://www.huntington.com/Personal/checking/asterisk-free-c...

Re: Walmart's effort to get customers to build up their savings accounts

#183
post #140

Kind of fucked up that the article doesn't mention the fees associated with these cards until like 3/4 of the way into the article. These cards charge 5 bucks a month, plus like 3 dollars to deposit cash, 3 dollars to withdraw cash, in addition to the 5-10 dollars up front for the card itself. Because of this, a person using this type of card can easily spend $100+ a year on fees. Not exactly a great way to save mone…

As someone from the UK I always find it astounding that Americans are used to paying money to.. withdraw or deposit their money. How did this become the norm? I find it a bit disgusting actually. The only cash machines that charge over here that I've seen are rented ones at packed events (clubs, concerts etc).

It's not the norm. Most Americans (at least in my experience) will go out of their way to use an ATM that doesn't charge them. Accordingly, picking a bank with a large ATM network is a major consideration when choosing a bank. Some smaller banks compete with this by reimbursing fees charged by out-of-network ATMs, making all ATMs effectively free.

It is certainly possible to pay for those services, but it's not normal. Some people let it happen out of laziness, or due to not being aware that they can do better.

We do have a fees problem, but it's mostly with other services. For example, many banks will charge some outrageous amount (like $5, outrageous compared their cost) to give you an electronic copy of a past bank statement. High overdraft fees are common. If you accidentally use your debit card to make a purchase that exceeds what you have in your account, the bank will often charge you a ~$35 fee rather than reject the transaction. This is optional, but they push it hard and sell it as a "service," since it means you're never left unable to complete your transaction. Never mind that being out a bunch of money is bad too.

Even worse, some banks (at least for a while) would intentionally maximize your overdraft fees by sorting your transactions on any give day from largest to smallest before applying them. For example, imagine if you have $99 in your account, and you use your debit card to make purchases, in order, of $1, $1, $1, and $100. The last transaction should overdraw the account, hit you with a $35 fee, and your balance will be -$39, right? Wrong! They'll run the $100 transaction first, overdrawing the account, and then run the $1 transactions on the overdrawn account. Net result: four $35 fees and a balance of -$144.

So yes, many of our banks suck, especially larger ones, but it's not quite as bad as everyone paying to withdraw and deposit.

Re: Walmart's effort to get customers to build up their savings accounts

#184
post #61
post #4

tricking people to save paltry sums of money meanwhile using the gains in interest to fund your company's most recent marketing campaign to trick people into buying more useless garbage they don't really need . what's wrong with this picture? in any case, i suppose this is good -- in the same way a slave owner providing food and shelter is good for the slave. you even have to pay to deposit and withdraw money.

I really hate arguments that derive from what a person "needs". Humans need amazingly little. Even when I was living below the poverty line I was bathed in the riches of my civilization, had high-speed internet, ate plentiful food, was clothed and had sheltered. I've also worked in conditions where I lived in a 1/4th of a trailer with a half-height locker and whatever I could keep in my top bunk with me -- I shared t…

A refrain I've often heard from victims of circumstance.

Assuming you were living in an ostensibly "first world" society, I'd guess most people are unsettled by the sense that your experience was both sadly typical and economically inexcusable, which is the likely context for many criticisms of the article's subject.

Re: Walmart's effort to get customers to build up their savings accounts

#185
post #61
post #4

tricking people to save paltry sums of money meanwhile using the gains in interest to fund your company's most recent marketing campaign to trick people into buying more useless garbage they don't really need . what's wrong with this picture? in any case, i suppose this is good -- in the same way a slave owner providing food and shelter is good for the slave. you even have to pay to deposit and withdraw money.

I really hate arguments that derive from what a person "needs". Humans need amazingly little. Even when I was living below the poverty line I was bathed in the riches of my civilization, had high-speed internet, ate plentiful food, was clothed and had sheltered. I've also worked in conditions where I lived in a 1/4th of a trailer with a half-height locker and whatever I could keep in my top bunk with me -- I shared t…

Even that 'wretched' existence doesn't have to be wretched - depending upon the external environment. I've been camping for extended periods with little more than that. Its not comfortable, but the experience was way better in many ways that my 'comfortable' cubicle.

Re: Walmart's effort to get customers to build up their savings accounts

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When banking becomes optional, I agree, however I need a bank and I ain't paying to take money out of it. When banking is optional, by all means they may charge, but I will take my cash in £20 pound notes in Royal Mail Special Delivery at the end of the month cheers!

I can't understand this point of view. Food isn't optional, and you still have to pay for that. Why should banking be free?

billing systems always expand to be as maximally complicated as the system will survive. Consider telephone billing toward the end of the last century, until the cost of billing exceeded the revenue from exotic billing systems, there were all kinds of insane schemes about internal, intra-LATA, inter-LATA, in-State, nationwide-LD, international, it was a complete circus. Eventually the cost of administrating that exceeded every other cost of providing service and now we just get "minutes" or even unlimited (provided with a weirdly billed data plan of course)

For another laugh buy a house or car with a loan and there's zillions of little fees and commissions tacked on to the base price. Complexity only increases over time, and it only decreases with collapse.

This is part of the logic of the old great depression "liquidate liquidate liquidate" guy who sounds heartless in retrospect but in practice the only way to reallocate poorly allocated resources in the modern capitalist system is to flush and start over, so not knowing the GD was going to be as bad as it turned out, the guy was correct, the faster the obsolete stuff gets flushed, the faster we get back to real living. Which is analogous to current conditions, and why many people are unhappy nothing has been fixed in the banking system (or another example is health care, obamacare and trumpcare have in common that they fix none of the core problems, which is our health care allocation system is an expensive disaster)

Re: Walmart's effort to get customers to build up their savings accounts

#188
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say it's hard, Wells Fargo has free checking for anyone with over $500/mo in direct deposits or makes 10+ debit card transactions per month. Even someone making part-time minimum wage can probably make the debit card requirements without an issue. Every credit union in my area offers free draft accounts as well, just put the $25-100 member balance into savings and you're done.

You can't be seriously recommending Wells Fargo to any consumer are you? They have proven to be a criminally fraudulent organization time and time again.

Some people can't afford to be overly picky with their bank, and I know at least one person who has been screwed by at least one of the big (US, consumer) banks (Bank of America, Chase, Citi, US Bank, Wells Fargo) - all of them suck.

For as awful as they are, Wells Fargo even has the "opportunity" checking account that gives people who have negative marks on ChexSystems a second chance at having a proper checking account. Compared to the awful re-loadable debit cards from Walmart, et. al, it's a great option and the monthly fee can be waived with 10 debit transactions per month or $500 in direct deposits.

Would I go out of my way to say I LIKE Wells Fargo? Hell no, they've done tons of shady stuff - but compared to how US Bank has screwed over every one in my family at least once they've been at a "below average" level of suck.

Re: Walmart's effort to get customers to build up their savings accounts

#189
"living paycheck to paycheck is now a commonplace middle-class experience"

Gaslighting. They're in the poverty class but that sounds bad to people propagandized to believe they're middle class. You're not poor, you're just a temporarily inconvenienced millionaire and you should base all your political decisions and worldview on that rather peculiar belief.

They're middle class, the same way I'm upper class nobility because I was awarded a college degree complete with a title of "Bachelor of CS". Some guys are titled "Duke of York" some guys are titled "Bachelor of Computer Science" no big difference. I hold a title to property, sure its only an acre of suburb land not a hundred thousand acre barony, but whatevs, I'm practically landed nobility. Only people with a title as distinguished as mine are allowed to hold corporate positions such as mine, we can't have a mere untitled commoner writing programs now can we? Or would you prefer to hear a nice rant on who is the real nobility of the glorious and ancient title of "engineer" and who is a mere pretender to the throne?

USA is full of gaslighting top to bottom.

Re: Walmart's effort to get customers to build up their savings accounts

#190
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone from the UK I always find it astounding that Americans are used to paying money to.. withdraw or deposit their money. How did this become the norm? I find it a bit disgusting actually. The only cash machines that charge over here that I've seen are rented ones at packed events (clubs, concerts etc).

> I find it a bit disgusting actually But withdrawing and depositing money is a service that costs the banks money to do doesn't it? I'm can see why you don't like but I can't see it as morally 'disgusting'. Would you look after someone else's meagre current account for them, and give it back on demand, for free? I wouldn't. I don't really know who covers that cost in the UK. It's certainly not interest they earn len…

Do believe that banks are setting their fees based on their associated costs?
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