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Coinbase adds support for Litecoin

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Re: Coinbase adds support for Litecoin

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All this smart contract talk makes me somewhat sceptical. There have been a lot of talk about code replacing lawyers for years now, I still see very little of that actually happening. Can you name any cool smart contract use cases?

The problem with smart contracts is that of defining trustless "oracles", or, how do you get data in and out of the network without relying on vulnerable points of centralisation. As soon as you require information about something other than the internal state of the chain, you have a problem. I believe some companies are attempting to implement solutions at the moment but I'm not familiar with the technology. Crowd-…

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Re: Coinbase adds support for Litecoin

#182
post #169

I don't really get the draw towards crypto-currencies - aside from mining them to bring more into the pool of available currency - is there a point to purchasing or using them to make purchases? Is there a reason I should start using these currencies? Aside from trading currencies to make a few bucks?

There's a growing interest in the underlying technology's implications for fintech. I think largely because transactions can be ultra fast, ultra cheap, and can execute auditable, but arbitrary custom logic. ACH is extremely old, very slow, inflexible, and still used across the world for large financial transactions.

I think you might be thinking of SWIFT for international transactions. As far as I was aware ACH is only used in the US.

Re: Coinbase adds support for Litecoin

#183
post #169

I don't really get the draw towards crypto-currencies - aside from mining them to bring more into the pool of available currency - is there a point to purchasing or using them to make purchases? Is there a reason I should start using these currencies? Aside from trading currencies to make a few bucks?

You can use bitcoin to buy drugs and other illegal things from the safety of your home.

Re: Coinbase adds support for Litecoin

#184
post #102
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin has by far the greatest amount of research and intellectual effort driving it, and it's far from a static protocol. It doesn't need to have gotten everything perfect, it needs to change just quickly (or slowly) enough to retain its core value proposition vs. other cryptocurrencies. Maybe it will get replaced, maybe not. But there's no question to me that Bitcoin is by far the most decentralized, most secure,…

> Bitcoin is by far the most decentralized, most secure Both of these are highly contentious if not outright wrong. Bitcoin's network is the most centralized at the moment. Bitmain is a great example of that. As for security, Ethereum is currently spending more $$ per block than Bitcoin to secure the chain.

Stop using the word "contentious" as an attempt to end discussion like the very thought of some idea being disagreeable to one or more people means it's not worthy of discussion.

Re: Coinbase adds support for Litecoin

#185

I never really got the appeal of Litecoin. It was basically just a copy and paste of Bitcoin with only minor alterations made to the source code (like changing the PoW for Script which never really defeated ASICs and a few other small changes.) It made no major innovations that can be named and even to this day it still lacks several of the major bug fixes that made it into Bitcoin (there are still patches missing fr…

> It was basically just a copy and paste of Bitcoin with only minor alterations made to the source code (like changing the PoW for Script which never really defeated ASICs and a few other small changes.)

The original announcement of Litecoin [1] shows that it is closer to being a Tenebrix clone. It was Tenebrix, a coin which has long since faded into obscurity, that introduced Hashcash with scrypt as an alternative PoW. Also, with others already having reduced the block interval time, there appears to be little if anything innovative about Litecoin.

[1] https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=47417.0

Re: Coinbase adds support for Litecoin

#186
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of this was arguably true two weeks ago. Today, Litecoin has locked in support for Segwit, and in about a week it will be possible to create Lightning Network transactions using Litecoin. This is largely due to the efforts of the creator, Charlie Lee, who was able to build consensus among the community to activate Segwit. Contrast this with the inability of the Bitcoin Community over the last few years to get any…

This. As the price indicated, it was 1/10 the value of itself from the Chinese bubble while Bitcoin has reached all time high now until it realized its use as a good real world test of the Bitcoin's newer features when Bitcoin struggled to apply those due to political and financial conflict within the community but Litecoin went ahead being a much smaller community and is the first to have it activated. Being almost…

Well, if it's useful for all those reasons, and it can be traded for a useful cryptocurrency like Bitcoin and Ether and now USD and to do everything a cryptocurrency can do then its useful . . . right?

You basically just said it's Bitcoin's more progressive, more nimble cousin.

Re: Coinbase adds support for Litecoin

#187
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's be absolutely clear: your coins are only worth what someone is willing to pay. And when the one and only true "run on the bank" of one of these currencies happens, it will happen within the span of less than an hour. All these people who are buying to eventually cash out are going to blink and wonder what the hell happened. That's not so different than what can happen in real life with currencies, isn't it? S…

>> he/she/them are dead or lost the keys to their private wallet[...] the minute this coins move, the price will plummet. And you can be sure that many people are watching these coins, a move will be noticed. Immediately. This aspect of BTC specifically makes me roar with laughter. The fact that anyone is willing to hope that Nakamoto's coins are "lost", discounting their very real value should he/she be sitting on t…

The amount of dormant coins is not that large anymore. I read somewhere it's on the order of 30%. If they enter all at once the pool it would be a significant haircut for everyone else, but not the end. More significant risks are an 51% attack, a bug in the protocol, a bug in the implementation of a widely used client, or a major government making it illegal to trade them.

Re: Coinbase adds support for Litecoin

#188

I never really got the appeal of Litecoin. It was basically just a copy and paste of Bitcoin with only minor alterations made to the source code (like changing the PoW for Script which never really defeated ASICs and a few other small changes.) It made no major innovations that can be named and even to this day it still lacks several of the major bug fixes that made it into Bitcoin (there are still patches missing fr…

> now survives as a zombie currency backed by the souls of all the bag-holders foolish enough to invest in it

Honestly, most of the world's economic trust is backed by similar bag-holders, just without the use of proof of stake algorithms. Yes, one could argue that hard goods are an amount of tangible trust that can represent value, but most of the value in today's systems comes from human backed trust, which itself is irrational. Take the Fed for example.

A bag-holder, by any definition, is simply an individual that believes a given fact, irrationally. Here, the irrational belief is that cryptocurrencies like Litecoin can give way to rational desirable outcomes in the future. This is based on a mostly rational assumption crytpocurrencies are designed to provide a rational and clear means by which value can be established among those who participate in a group using the technology. For example, if I send you 1 Litecoin, then everyone in our group can immediately come to the rational conclusion you now have control of 1 Litecoin, assuming you control the private key to that address, of course. In other words, we agree to use this thing because this thing appears to be rational.

It only becomes irrational when we start talking about adding fiat currency values into the mix. Those values themselves are based on human established trust, so must be irrational by definition. Again, I point at the Fed. The way the Dollar's value is calculated, in part, is by analyzing 100K different products sold on the markets. Who picked these items? Who decided how much they are worth? What ruler was used to measure their worth?

Either we can continue down the path of handling irrational beliefs the old way, by electing group leaders (or leaders electing themselves) to speak for the group and it's collective value, or we can adopt new ways of instantiating trust by letting computers do it in a way that can be proved to be almost, but not quite, completely rational.

> Can we all just agree that Litecoin is a way over-hyped and silly excuse for a cryptocurrency?

No. As I've pointed out now, the belief that our current economic systems "make sense" is irrational. I think it's far better if we all agree that something needs to be done about it, that something might be slightly irrational in the short term, and that cryptocurrencies, like Litecoin, may present a rational means by which we measure value in the economy of the world, moving forward.

As is clear from its current market cap, it would seem others agree with me, and disagree with you.

Note: I use the terms rational and irrational frequently nowadays. When I use the terms I am referring to the concept of either an "unknown amount of work ahead" or a "known amount of work ahead". Programmers may liken this concept to the the P versus NP problem. While not equivalent, they both represent an idea that an unknown or overly large amount of work can be "collapsed" into a known amount of work, and thus calculated at a given cost.

Re: Coinbase adds support for Litecoin

#189
post #169

I don't really get the draw towards crypto-currencies - aside from mining them to bring more into the pool of available currency - is there a point to purchasing or using them to make purchases? Is there a reason I should start using these currencies? Aside from trading currencies to make a few bucks?

There's a growing interest in the underlying technology's implications for fintech. I think largely because transactions can be ultra fast, ultra cheap, and can execute auditable, but arbitrary custom logic. ACH is extremely old, very slow, inflexible, and still used across the world for large financial transactions.

> I think largely because transactions can be ultra fast, ultra cheap, and can execute auditable, but arbitrary custom logic.

Blockchains are neither fast nor cheap; their value is trustlessness, not performance. The SWIFT network handled 15 million transfers per day in 2015 [1], Bitcoin's current maximum is around 600k per day/~7 transactions per second. That being said, the Bitcoin-limit is self-imposed (1MB per block), but even so the security of the network weakens as storage requirements for nodes increase, so some limit is required, in my opinion.

The value of crypto currencies is in the decentralized/trustless medium of exchange. I think, in the end, we will use various clearing protocols on top of Bitcoin, in order to circumvent the slow on-Blockchain settlement (just like VISA handles consumer-to-merchant transactions instead of SWIFT). It's very much like gold: perfect as a store of value, but relatively cumbersome to transfer from person to person.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_for_Worldwide_Interban...

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