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Why Deutsche Bundesbank had to promise to leave 1200 tons of gold in New York

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Re: Why Deutsche Bundesbank had to promise to leave 1200 tons of gold in New York

#181

Post by maxander »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #164
erikb wrote: post #36

> Gold is money, which is based on physical ownership, not on trust in the willingness and ability of another party to honor their promises. If you have gold, but you do not have it under your control, it is almost pointless to have gold. Really digging this one. That's why I proactively not listen to investors/consultants who suggest to buy some gold derivates for savety purposes. In other regards: What's the point…

My read on it was that the Author is saying that maybe there is more truth to the conspiracy theories that America has looted everyone's gold out of the Fed for its own purposes than you might think. His reasoning appears to be, "If the world is, as the Fed presents it, then we should be able get our gold back. But we can't." and then notes agencies that the auditing agency that was aggressively pushing even an accou…

Even if the Fed "lost" some of the gold (which would be a hilarious story), does it really matter? There has to be some liability clause in whatever agreement put the gold in the Fed's hands to begin with- if they lose track of Germany's property (or claim to have, or whatever), they're obligated to pay Germany back for it. Revealing that would be a gigantic embarrassment, sure, but primarily only concerning the American financial system's competence in running vaults. The U.S. budget could handle the payout in dollars, and Germany could take their payment and use it to buy another pile of gold if they like. Contrary to the ideas of the article author, ownership isn't a physical process, so all the speculation as to where some particular collection of element 79 resides should be irrelevant to the economic situation.

Re: Why Deutsche Bundesbank had to promise to leave 1200 tons of gold in New York

#182

Post by trhway »

ComradeTaco wrote: post #172
erikb wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the value is much smaller since your power to keep it is smaller. But the amount will also be smaller. And I would say there are still quite a few situations where having something of trade value is better than having nothing.

If we're in the kind of crisis where all fiat money is useless, gold will be useless too. The only kind of thing that will have value are things that help you survive. A crate full of gauze pads and bandaids would be better than a whole stack of gold bullion in that situation.

You've never been through a country scale crisis.

Re: Why Deutsche Bundesbank had to promise to leave 1200 tons of gold in New York

#183

Post by NotSammyHagar »

Zigurd wrote: post #114
dualogy wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that's a telling finding. It's just "telling" different conclusions about "global wealth", "JPMorgan's market capitalization", and gold's "fair" value to different minds ;) The only thing that's safe to assess about that bullion is that for all human intents and purposes, it'll outlast infinite numbers of generations, and the other stuff --- won't. That alone tells of the impossibility and futility of putting a…

Yes, it's about the symbolism. The value of gold does not track the total value of other assets, making it unable to be use as a currency substitute because you would need too much of it to do anything meaningful. Revealing a "problem" with US-held gold would be a blow to US currency dominance. The value of such a shift in global power is vastly more than the total value of gold on the planet, which is about 8-9 tril…

Eventually there will be asteroid mining, and like we already have a sense of 1 trillion dollars worth of palladium in an asteroid, there will be 1 trillion dollars worth of new gold - which did cost a lot to get. Google claims the entire mined gold in the world's history is 8 trillion, but tons (ha) have been lost over time. Anyway, you get 12.5% more in that first shipment. Maybe it will be a 100 years from now. And then we find another and so forth. Will that cause a panic? Will anyone care?

Re: Why Deutsche Bundesbank had to promise to leave 1200 tons of gold in New York

#184

Post by NotSammyHagar »

joering2 wrote: post #109
owenversteeg wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As fascinating as that is, what I find to be even more interesting is that the total wealth in that insane concrete-bubble structure built to withstand atomic attack... is just over a billion USD. That's nothing in the scale of global wealth. And that's the largest gold vault on Earth. Pretty disappointing if you ask me. The entire gold vault (one million ounces of gold) is worth about a third of one percent of JPMor…

You miss the point. You CONVERTING gold into USD on a current value. But rest assured if one million ounces are rendered untouchable for period of 100 years due to radioactivity, you can bet your bottom dollar the price of gold (remaining stock) will sky rocket.

Uhm, there will be other problems if someone nukes nyc.

Re: Why Deutsche Bundesbank had to promise to leave 1200 tons of gold in New York

#185

Post by NotSammyHagar »

erikb wrote: post #148
21 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are saying that Germany would begin military action against Switzerland for $50 billion worth of gold (rough value of 1000 tons of gold). How much damage to the Euro and to the European stock markets would such action cause? Not to mention other costs

Not 100% what I'm saying. I'm saying that if Switzerland holds a lot of Germanys gold and has promised to give access whenever and don't hold up to that promise, Germany just moving some tanks over, then taking the gold, then moving the tanks back, is quite a possible scenario. Yes that would harm the EU in short term (1-5 years). But so would it get hurt if a powerful member of that alliance is not able to enforce r…

Such an action would destroy trillions of dollars of wealth. For less than apple has in cash. It doesn't make sense, $50 billion of gold is still just $50 billion.

Re: Why Deutsche Bundesbank had to promise to leave 1200 tons of gold in New York

#186

Post by BatFastard »

maxander wrote: post #181
ChuckMcM wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My read on it was that the Author is saying that maybe there is more truth to the conspiracy theories that America has looted everyone's gold out of the Fed for its own purposes than you might think. His reasoning appears to be, "If the world is, as the Fed presents it, then we should be able get our gold back. But we can't." and then notes agencies that the auditing agency that was aggressively pushing even an accou…

Even if the Fed "lost" some of the gold (which would be a hilarious story), does it really matter? There has to be some liability clause in whatever agreement put the gold in the Fed's hands to begin with- if they lose track of Germany's property (or claim to have, or whatever), they're obligated to pay Germany back for it. Revealing that would be a gigantic embarrassment, sure, but primarily only concerning the Amer…

1200 tons of gold is worth around 44 Billion, a trivial amount of money as far the US government is worth. So the idea that it would be stolen by the government is ludicrous.

Re: Why Deutsche Bundesbank had to promise to leave 1200 tons of gold in New York

#187

Post by powera »

"In 2013 and 2014 they melted 55 of the 90 tons they retrieved in these two years, destroying all evidence if anything should have been wrong, like some of that gold being inferior "coin-gold", for example." - and I'm done.

Melting bullion is the standard way to determine that it is in fact gold. If it were "inferior coin-gold" (which I assume he means some form of alloy), that would have been detected through the process of melting.

This man is too far into conspiracy theories to present a neutral view of anything.

Re: Why Deutsche Bundesbank had to promise to leave 1200 tons of gold in New York

#188

Post by ComradeTaco »

trhway wrote: post #182
ComradeTaco wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're in the kind of crisis where all fiat money is useless, gold will be useless too. The only kind of thing that will have value are things that help you survive. A crate full of gauze pads and bandaids would be better than a whole stack of gold bullion in that situation.

You've never been through a country scale crisis.

In a country scale crisis people would be selling all their valuables for fire sale prices to pay for essentials, including gold. A fiat reserve currency, like the Swiss Franc or the Pound would be easier to use, less likely to be stolen and more valuable then gold shavings.

Re: Why Deutsche Bundesbank had to promise to leave 1200 tons of gold in New York

#189

Post by School-Cotton »

ComradeTaco wrote: post #172
erikb wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the value is much smaller since your power to keep it is smaller. But the amount will also be smaller. And I would say there are still quite a few situations where having something of trade value is better than having nothing.

If we're in the kind of crisis where all fiat money is useless, gold will be useless too. The only kind of thing that will have value are things that help you survive. A crate full of gauze pads and bandaids would be better than a whole stack of gold bullion in that situation.

There is quite a continuum between fiat currency collapsing and the sort of zombie apocalypse you describe.

Fiat currency has become worthless many times in many countries without a total breakdown of civilization to the extent that gold no longer has any value (e.g., Argentina, Yugoslavia, Brazil, Weimar Germany, post-revolution France, ...)

Re: Why Deutsche Bundesbank had to promise to leave 1200 tons of gold in New York

#190

Post by darkhorn »

reitanqild wrote: post #177
darkhorn wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. By the civil servants in the USA.

I also hear 9/11 was set up by the Americans, the moon landing was faked etc etc. Yet as far as I know just making 3 people keep a secret for years is next to impossible. If people wants me to believe in frauds so enourmous that you'll need hundreds of people to never mention anything - then I will need pretty solid evidence.

You mean just like NSA warrantless surveillance.

If it is done by the state you can keep it confidential, can't you?

And I don't think that you need hundrets of people to steal gold. Several people with state orders to delete and change regord will be enough.

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