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India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

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Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#181

Post by prawn »

linux_devil wrote: post #11

This village in India is the cleanest village in asia, sharing one article: http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/20160606-the-cleanest-villag...

The article talks about various people contributing to the regular cleaning. I think one solution to the developing job/motivation crisis is some sort of Civilian Conservation Corps providing a base wage to people in exchange for a few hours each week of easy, non-essential work contributing to the general decency of a locale. Pruning, sweeping an area, weeding a verge, removing litter from a roadside. The sort of work you see gardeners doing at dawn throughout Asia, especially in resorts.

There could be many older men for example keen to have a sense of purpose, doing a task they're capable of and staying active, rather than putting in 40+ hours/week at a desk.

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#182

Post by prawn »

ralfd wrote: post #117
Pica_soO wrote: post #113

The thing that strikes me as the most odd - is that until ww1 (thats right the recent Battlefieldified one)- soldiers would carry talismans into the battle, that where supposed to make them bulletproof and immortal. Thats right, something that sounds oh, so exotic, right in the midst of the west. Also, it helps if you look at the Congo and Europe during WW2. The same chaos, the same refugee rows, the same anarchy and…

That doesn't sound so odd? I bet quite a few modern soldiers still have some talismans or lucky charms.

I imagine prayer is quite common in the military, as one example.

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#183

Post by mostlyskeptical »

up_and_up wrote: post #121
avar wrote: post #16

> Unfortunately, in many places, it’s not > feasible to lay down sewer pipes or build > treatment facilities. [...] But giving > people access to toilets isn’t enough. You > also have to persuade them to use the > toilets. I can't find it now, but there was a news video making the rounds a year or two ago that showed that this problem is much more fundamental than that. It showed a Indians in a tiny village who were…

> But somehow the problem persists, it's unbelievable. Before you get too high and mighty there.... Not long ago (1996) here in the USA, they were still removing all the outhouses that had been positioned directly over fresh-water streams all over Appalachia. See "Straight Piping". [1] Its easy to judge poor people in other countries, we forget how recently we were (and maybe still are) making similar mistakes. [1] -…

Even that link you posted says

>Although most people with poor systems knew they had problems and wanted to correct them

And also states that most of the problem is due to money (or lack of).

In India even most of those in rural areas with toilets don't use them. [1]

Further, even in urban areas of those those with access to toilets, 7.5% choose open defecation on the streets instead.

Pretending that people that want indoor plumbing but can't afford it is the same situation as people with access to plumbing but don't use it is very disingenuous.

[1]https://www.pri.org/stories/2016-05-12/india-access-toilets-...

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#184

Post by geokon »

Laforet wrote: post #180
Banthum wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's far beyond "toddlers in rural China commonly poop in the street". In downtown Shanghai I got to watch a mother walk out of her business holding her child, have the child crap on the sidewalk (while being held in the mothers' arms), and then brought back inside. This was not a baby. The kid looked about 3-4 years old. This goes on in subway stations as well. The parent has the kid sit on the edge of a garbage can…

This arises from a mixture of two things: A strong agrarian tradition where no piece of human waste is going to be left festering in the sun - somebody is going to pick it up and make good use of it. In all seriousness this has been the case until chemical fertilisers became cheap enough, before then every town had organised dung-gatherer guilds who organised daily cleanup of faeces in the street and sold the product…

Living in China I've noticed that the attitude towards the very young does seem really similar to the attitude they have towards their pets. It's always been so baffling.

Do you have any other info on the second point?

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#185

Post by graycat »

prions wrote: post #143
graycat wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't need much in the way of sewer pipes. I live in the US, in NY, 70 miles north of Wall Street, in a house with two bathtubs, four sinks, three toilets, one washing machine, and one dish washer, with nearly no use of "sewer pipes". Right, no city sewer. Instead there is some PVC pipe, cheap, super simple to work with, darned rugged, and, presto, bingo, a big concrete box in the ground just behind the main piece of…

As a (now former) wastewater engineer, I'd take sanitary sewers over septic tanks anyday. With septic tanks you run into many more maintenance issues with things like clogging, overflowing, cleaning, etc. Not to mention this cost is borne onto the homeowner and not the municipality. There's also persistent groundwater issues. Even if you have good soil permeability and aren't impacting an aquifer, multiple septic sys…

> As a (now former) wastewater engineer

When I was in grad school, my office was across the hall from Abel Wolman.

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#187

Post by graycat »

eru wrote: post #130
graycat wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't need much in the way of sewer pipes. I live in the US, in NY, 70 miles north of Wall Street, in a house with two bathtubs, four sinks, three toilets, one washing machine, and one dish washer, with nearly no use of "sewer pipes". Right, no city sewer. Instead there is some PVC pipe, cheap, super simple to work with, darned rugged, and, presto, bingo, a big concrete box in the ground just behind the main piece of…

I wonder whether your setup could be made to work with a higher population density?

Probably not much higher without some significant changes.

But the main idea of a septic tank is to have the bacteria eat everything objectionable, give off CO2 and methane, leave a little sludge (after 20+ years, I've never had the septic tank cleaned), and those are also the main ideas for sewage treatment if have big sewer pipes, bring all that stuff to a central location, and treat it there.

As far as I can tell, what runs into the drain field in my backyard is just harmless. It doesn't even make the grass grow faster than elsewhere. The back boundary of my backyard is a small stream; it only has water flow from melted snow or heavy rains; and I've never seen any evidence that my drain field or those of any of the neighbors generates any flow in the stream.

All the houses in my area, at least 25 square miles, have such septic tanks, and I nearly never get any whiffs of methane or anything else.

So, for your question, sure, with somewhat higher population density, just do a little more with septic tanks. Even with the population density of NYC, in the end the crucial step is some bacteria eating the rest just as in my septic tank.

The NYS building codes for houses are careful to specify what is needed for a septic system, especially about what has to be in the drain field. In some cases, suitable soil has to be trucked in as part of building a suitable drain field.

As far as I can tell, the water from my septic tank just goes into the soil just like melted snow or rain water. Maybe the best view of what, besides just pure water, my septic tank is adding to the soil is, in a word, more soil!

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#188

Post by [deleted] »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #148
magic_beans wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a joke.

I don't really come to this site for jokes. I come for the intellectual stimulation. If a stimulating post is entertaining that's great, but the post above wasn't stimulating in my opinion. I have no idea what they were referencing when they implied San Francisco is having a sewage problem because they gave no citations or statistics. They just posted something for an emotional response to gain upvotes, which is not…

[deleted]

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#189

Post by ezhil »

thowbit9 wrote: post #95
intended wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A long my time ago, a steel company installed toilets in Orissa (I hope I'm recalling the conversation exactly). They've just fallen into disrepair. People didn't use them. This is a habit change that has to be completed, once that happens, a lot will change on its own.

There was an initiative in the state of Kerala for bio portable toilets with solar powered light. I saw one or two in the Cochin city which uses a 1 rupee coin to open the door. The problem with these initiatives is that they are all politically motivated. Once the ruling parties get the necessary PR around it, the funding is stopped. Modi is no different. There is no reason to laud Modi for this. The previous govern…

I second this. No doubt the effort is laudable. The funding comes from Swachh Bharat cess though. But I too see quite a lot of PR around this. This scheme was the one among the first to project Modi as a modern day Indian saviour. The very first effort to bring even opponents together.

Re: India Is Winning Its War on Human Waste

#190

Post by akoumis »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #148
magic_beans wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a joke.

I don't really come to this site for jokes. I come for the intellectual stimulation. If a stimulating post is entertaining that's great, but the post above wasn't stimulating in my opinion. I have no idea what they were referencing when they implied San Francisco is having a sewage problem because they gave no citations or statistics. They just posted something for an emotional response to gain upvotes, which is not…

I thought it was funny. Does that make it okay? Or do you use this site the "right" way?
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