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Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

nytimes.com

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Re: Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

#181

Post by clort »

asdfgadsfgasfdg wrote: post #104
dazc wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it pretty annoying actually. I have been submitting my returns digitally for several years now and I haven't noticed any improvements? For example, it pre-fills some data but omits obvious stuff like my first name and email address which are highly unlikely to have changed since last year? Some non-relevant sections can be ignored but others need you to enter 0.00. Also, if there is an error in the electronic…

> For example, it pre-fills some data but omits obvious stuff like my first name and email address which are highly unlikely to have changed since last year? They may be thinking that it is better to let you cache that information in your browser?

Well, I have always done the paper form instead of online (why? I don't know.. but this year will likely be online) and the paper form has your name and address on it, and you only have to change something if it is different.

Re: Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

#182

Post by sqeaky »

Waterluvian wrote: post #128

I don't have the most complex tax situation: a wife, child, income, capital gains. But it takes me maybe 15 minutes in Canada to do. I once screwed it up and they fixed it for me, yielding a larger return than I calculated (I accidentally zeroed the RRSP contribution carry over value). Thought maybe this would help give perspective of what can be.

Is there anything Canada isn't best at?

I once heard a (bad) joke. If you are in Canada and hold the door for a group of 5 people you can expect 7 "thank you"s.

Well that's just a joke I thought, there is no way people are polite anywhere. So I decided to act on this little limerick and compare it to Nebraska manners. At a few restaurants, in home town of Omaha, I tried holding the door for groups counting the "thank you"s. The first group of 5 gave me 6 "thank you"s.

I thought that was actually pretty good, but it is not an experiment without a control. I had a friend going to Canada and asked him to try it. Sure enough the first group of 5 gave him 7 "thank you"s.

Re: Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

#183

Post by raarts »

mnm1 wrote: post #175

All other developed countries have no problem doing ________. Why can't the US do _________? Lobbying. Works for simple tax returns, healthcare, labor laws, unionizing, etc.

Banking and payment systems are arcane too. Nobody uses checks any more except the US, and online banking is soooo complicated and confusing completed to other Western countries.

Re: Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

#184

Post by genericpseudo »

Angostura wrote: post #169
patio11 wrote: post #50

The NTA (National Tax Authority, cited as the Kokuzeicho in the article) doesn't figure out your taxes for you. Your employer does, as one of the (many!) ways in which they exercise paternalistic control of your life. If you do not have an employer, you get to go through a process which is almost exactly as fun as it is in the US, modulo a modestly competent online filing application. I spent $3k this year on account…

In the U.K. If you are employed, your tax is worked out for your through the Pay as You Earn system. If you are self employed you fill in the rather good self-assessment form online and your tax is calculated for you.

If you have to file UK tax from outside the UK, then you have to do it on paper or use commercial software, but it costs from about $30 a year, so no big deal.

Re: Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

#185

Post by sokoloff »

feld wrote: post #62
patio11 wrote: post #50

The NTA (National Tax Authority, cited as the Kokuzeicho in the article) doesn't figure out your taxes for you. Your employer does, as one of the (many!) ways in which they exercise paternalistic control of your life. If you do not have an employer, you get to go through a process which is almost exactly as fun as it is in the US, modulo a modestly competent online filing application. I spent $3k this year on account…

$3k??! How is that possible? I get personal and business taxes done for $200

I pay very close to that for our US taxes. We have to file 5 federal returns and one state return: an MFJ 1040 with supporting schedules (A, C, and D primarily), 2 kiddie returns, 2 gift tax returns, and a state return. Throughout the year, we file quarterly estimated taxes and 4868s.

Our total filing packet runs to nearly 100 pages and our annual bill is between $1800 and $2500, depending on the exact complexity, whether we have any amended filings to make, etc.

I DIY'd my taxes for many years, and once the kids came and brought the additional complexity (some of which is cyclic), I tried a professional one year. Literally in the first year, he looked over my prior DIY'd returns [that I was certain I'd done correctly] and found an error in one year where I'd overpaid $29K by miscalculating the basis of some employee RSUs and it was still within the statute of limitations where I could amend that year. He saved me 10 years' worth of his fees before he'd filed my first full year of taxes.

Re: Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

#186

Post by guelo »

pharrlax wrote: post #65

Overlooked in this article and comments is the influence of one man -- Grover Norquist. He runs an extremely influential organization that administers a sort of purity pledge that, for most Republican candidates for Congress, is necessary to sign in order to avoid being primaried. He has decided that making taxes easier to do would make people more okay with tax increases, and so he has decreed that support for the k…

Trump seems to have the same extreme anti-tax ideology as Norquist.

Re: Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

#187

Post by jmulho »

strictnein wrote: post #159

The reason American taxes are more complex is that both parties use the income tax system for social engineering. They want to encourage things like home ownership, attending college, having kids, donating to charity, etc, so they let you deduct related costs.

Modifying the tax code is also the easiest way to accomplish redistribution of wealth (for better or for worse). This is at least in part because the complexity of the tax code obfuscates the cost of the program. For example, should we continue to fund the budget of the "Department of Benefits for People with Spouses Born Before January 2, 1952"? Who benefits (how many and by how much)? What does this program cost? Nobody knows. There is no such department. Instead there is a check box on line 39a of the 1040. Checking it might change the standard deduction, for people who take the standard deduction, if they checked some other boxes, "see instructions".

Re: Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

#188

Post by alkonaut »

kspaans wrote: post #180
alkonaut wrote: post #168

I file mine by ticking a checkbox and signing with the normal national digital id app. This is Sweden. I do not understand how the hell this is still so complicated in the US. Just change it? My impression of politics and authorities is "if something is obviously broken then it's already worked on and probably fixed within a year or two". The reason crap isn't fixed in the US? Beats me - but I'll guess: because a lot…

To give you a small example: the deduction for moving expenses[0]. If you move for work (plus some other small conditions), you can deduct those expenses from your taxable income. This can't be claimed for you automatically, you have to ask for it. To automatically file your taxes would very likely mean you miss this deduction. It's the legions of (arguably) boutique tax credits like this that crank up the complexity…

We have those - but the system is constructed to be simple. If a not insignificant part of the population is eligible for some deduction, then either a) ensure it's automatically registered or b) remove the deduction or raise tresholds until everyone can again file automatically.

For example, interest rates, pensions, charities, home improvements etc are deductible and automatically deducted since e.g the bank or charity reports the interest cost or donation etc. Travel to work is deductible but the treshold for making the deduction is so high that few can claim it.

The key is to design the tax system so that it is easy to file. A deduction no matter how fair and reasonable that would make thousands have to file paperwork doesn't make sense.

Re: Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

#189

Post by throwaway4job »

caseysoftware wrote: post #96
pharrlax wrote: post #65

Overlooked in this article and comments is the influence of one man -- Grover Norquist. He runs an extremely influential organization that administers a sort of purity pledge that, for most Republican candidates for Congress, is necessary to sign in order to avoid being primaried. He has decided that making taxes easier to do would make people more okay with tax increases, and so he has decreed that support for the k…

There's good evidence for this. That was part of the reason the Feds pushed employers to do withholding "on our behalf" during the 1930s. Prior to that, taxes were filed quarterly and then only a small % of people. But people actually saw how much they paid. Withholding was a clever and subtle way for us to never see part of our paycheck so then any tax return we get feels like a bonus when it was actually just an in…

You did not present any evidence of any of Norquist's argument.

The top federal income tax rate in the US occurred in 1944, and was 94%. At that point, the 1040 was substantially simpler than they are today, and there were far fewer other forms involved.

Since that point in time, filing has become increasingly complicated, but the tax rate has declined. If your "argument" had any merit, this would not be the case.

Grover Norquist purposefully steals hundreds of millions of hours of time and billions of dollars from Americans, every year, in the hope that we won't realize that he is actively making government less efficient, more burdensome, and worse.

If he wants to run an ad campaign, that's fine. But what he's doing right now is stealing time and money from every single American to push his agenda.

Re: Filing Taxes in Japan Is a Breeze. Why Not in the US?

#190

Post by greggman »

narrowrail wrote: post #72
pharrlax wrote: post #65

Overlooked in this article and comments is the influence of one man -- Grover Norquist. He runs an extremely influential organization that administers a sort of purity pledge that, for most Republican candidates for Congress, is necessary to sign in order to avoid being primaried. He has decided that making taxes easier to do would make people more okay with tax increases, and so he has decreed that support for the k…

Norquist started Americans for Tax Reform (ATR) is a politically conservative U.S. taxpayer advocacy group whose stated goal is "a system in which taxes are simpler, flatter, more visible, and lower than they are today." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americans_for_Tax_Reform Doesn't sound like you are describing Norquist's organization they way they do in their mission statement. Do you have any references?

it's a matter of perspective . making taxes more invisible to some people, myself included, makes them easier to raise.

so, the argument would be to first make taxes more painful. the best would be to remove auto withholding. if the average $50k a year family had to write a check for $3k to the government every 3 mouths they'd likely push much harder for lower taxes. less taxes means less money for government which would seem to mean smaller government. once the taxes are low and government is small you can simplify the tax code.

I'm not saying I agree with that or that I could ever actually happen but I don't see a flaw in the logic and why their own description of their mission can both say they are for simpler taxes and also be against the kind of simpler the linked article is about

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