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Uber finds one allegedly stolen Waymo file on an employee’s personal device

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Re: Uber finds one allegedly stolen Waymo file on an employee’s personal device

#181

Are there any opensource autonomous/driverless car projects with substantial momentum. This seems like something so foundational to the next 50 to 100 years that it needs to be 'owned' by everyone.

To be completely honest, it seems like this is going to be so tightly tied to hardware that it won't matter _that_ much.

Re: Uber finds one allegedly stolen Waymo file on an employee’s personal device

#182
post #90
post #62

Judge Alsup: "If your guy is involved in criminal activity and has to have criminal lawyers of the caliber of these two gentlemen, who are the best, well, okay they got the best. But it’s a problem I can’t solve for you. And if you think I’m going to cut you some slack because you’re looking at—your guy is looking at jail time, no. They [Waymo] are going to get the benefit of their record. And if you don’t deny it—if…

How is Uber supposed to prove that they don't have the files? I'm asking purely from a legal / process perspective - would they have to turn over all their data to discovery, or something? If they legitimately don't have the files, how could they satisfy the judge? Or is it not possible that they don't have the files? What if Levandowski has the files on his home computer or something but they never touched Uber's sy…

   > What if Levandowski has the files on his home 
   > computer or something but they never touched Uber's 
   > system?
One of the things that surprised me about Google's employee agreement was that by signing it, the employee gives permission to Google to search any and all digital devices associated with the employee whether or not they are owned by Google. When I asked an employment lawyer about it he suggested it was fairly boilerplate (if a bit extreme) and designed to combat situations exactly like this, party A sues the employer based on behavior of employee B who may have been doing nefarious things 'off book'.

So in this case Uber presumably has a similar clause in their employment agreement and are searching relevant employees devices for evidence of the files.

Re: Uber finds one allegedly stolen Waymo file on an employee’s personal device

#183
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As that would be arson I have some doubts it goes that far. It would be a very interesting whistleblowing case I suspect.

But the whistleblowing would be for "trying to force an employee to commit arson", not for firing them.

It doesn't seem to be that simple in most US jurisdictions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment#Public_poli...

Re: Uber finds one allegedly stolen Waymo file on an employee’s personal device

#184
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a very american perspective though. In Germany you are not allowed to fire someone for these reasons (you might be able to dismiss him for no reason at all but the contract will not be over for quite a long time) So the authority of a company firing somebody over not handing over their laptop can be reasonably questioned.

As long as it's not discrimination based, you can fire someone for any reason. My boss could fire me for disliking the color of my T-Shirt this morning.

That depends a lot on jurisdiction. It's not even true for every job/state combination in the US.

Re: Uber finds one allegedly stolen Waymo file on an employee’s personal device

#185
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a very american perspective though. In Germany you are not allowed to fire someone for these reasons (you might be able to dismiss him for no reason at all but the contract will not be over for quite a long time) So the authority of a company firing somebody over not handing over their laptop can be reasonably questioned.

> That is a very american perspective though. Yes, and this case is between American parties, under American law, in the U.S. (of America) District Court for the Northern District of California.

I'm aware of that and just wanted to point out why this american perspective can be questioned, which was -in my opinion- the intend of "08-15".

Re: Uber finds one allegedly stolen Waymo file on an employee’s personal device

#186
post #62

Judge Alsup: "If your guy is involved in criminal activity and has to have criminal lawyers of the caliber of these two gentlemen, who are the best, well, okay they got the best. But it’s a problem I can’t solve for you. And if you think I’m going to cut you some slack because you’re looking at—your guy is looking at jail time, no. They [Waymo] are going to get the benefit of their record. And if you don’t deny it—if…

For those who don't recognize the name, this is the same judge that learned some Java for the Oracle v. Google case (and has an undergrad degree in mathematics). Every time I read his name I know it's going to be a fun ride and the lawyers will not be able to get away with anywhere near as much shenanigans as they usually do. Although his ruling regarding API copyright in the Google case was overturned, he has a real…

This is a judge that I respect. He should be on the Supreme Court.

Re: Uber finds one allegedly stolen Waymo file on an employee’s personal device

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you then went to work at a competitor and the competitor claimed that you were copying their trade secrets, then it would certainly be relevant.

How? A competitor is obligated by capitalism to do everything they can to level the competition. An accusation doesn't make fact. This is such a classic justice tale I'm sure it's memorialized in fable. You get accused of witchcraft: well that's weird, you sure have a lot of herbs around, huh? (bay leaves and garlic) What's that giant kettle for? (making soup. With bay leaves and garlic) Etc. The mere accusation can…

> How? A competitor is obligated by capitalism to do everything they can to level the competition. An accusation doesn't make fact.

There's no principle in capitalism, nor law, that would require(!) you to level false criminal accusations against competitors. The opposite is true. If Google's case were found to be entirely without merit, and intentionally so, they'd be liable for criminal prosecution themselves.

Even the whole you-must-everyting-to-increase-shareholder-value-shtick is mostly a myth, by the way(mo).

Re: Uber finds one allegedly stolen Waymo file on an employee’s personal device

#189
post #88
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can generally predict Uber's behavior by assuming it behaves like a stereotypical frat house. The behavior is: - Go for it and see if anyone complains - See if ignoring the complainers makes them go away - See if bullying the complainers makes them go away - Can it be solved with money? - Last resort: cheat. - If you get caught, call the lawyers; in public, whine about the raw deal you're getting.

Unfortunately for them, the combination of Google alleging massive theft, the issues around Applebaum, and the high profile exit of some of their execs, none of that is likely to work.

Hey, what issues around Applebaum? Some googling didn't help me, the most prominent result is a journalist called Anne Applebaum.

Re: Uber finds one allegedly stolen Waymo file on an employee’s personal device

#190
post #62

Judge Alsup: "If your guy is involved in criminal activity and has to have criminal lawyers of the caliber of these two gentlemen, who are the best, well, okay they got the best. But it’s a problem I can’t solve for you. And if you think I’m going to cut you some slack because you’re looking at—your guy is looking at jail time, no. They [Waymo] are going to get the benefit of their record. And if you don’t deny it—if…

For those who don't recognize the name, this is the same judge that learned some Java for the Oracle v. Google case (and has an undergrad degree in mathematics). Every time I read his name I know it's going to be a fun ride and the lawyers will not be able to get away with anywhere near as much shenanigans as they usually do. Although his ruling regarding API copyright in the Google case was overturned, he has a real…

Indeed he's the judge Judy of tech IP trials. The java one was the first I'd ever bothered following on a regular basis, very entertaining.
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