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Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

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Re: Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

#181

Post by mooreds »

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #166
nougatine wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's asinine. Because of some internal policy, you guarantee to waste people's time. It's already an asymmetric process, but behaviour like this makes it even more lopsided and plain wasteful.

You've hit the nail on the head. I appreciate the situation with companies. The "black hole" exists because they can't possibly deal humanly with every inquiry. To me, the question is: Why is the situation so asymmetric? Why is job hunting such a "seller's market?" Why do companies get hundreds, or thousands, of applications for one open position? It's like everyone who does similar work is continually submitting the…

Just to be pedantic, I would call it a "buyer's market" where the commodity is labor.

I think that the reason it is so asymmetric is because the normal company runs on multiple employees, which means that if they can't find one more person right now business still continues.

But the normal person only has time for one job, which means if they can't find one, they go hungry (so to speak).

The desire for employment is asymmetric and therefore the power accrues to the party with less desire.

Re: Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

#182

Post by mooreds »

thewhitetulip wrote: post #147
BinaryIdiot wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even that but I'm convinced some companies, like Twitter, have an automated rejection system. I remember submitted my resume online at like 3am PST and getting a response within minutes rejecting me saying I wasn't a good fit for the job (I met all qualifications). So, suspecting it was automated I waited a few days, completely changed up my resume and resubmitted it and it was rejected in less than a minute sayi…

I applied once at an Indian/US firm from HN thread. You won't believe how unprofessional they were. I never got a single reply back until I emailed them, and I had a coding exam where I created an app, they said they'll reply in a week, after a month they said "sorry blah blah", that too, after two emails of mine aaking " you said a week, what is the status?". Rather than going through this ordeal I'd prefer if they…

That's horrifying and worth posting on Glassdoor.

Re: Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

#183

Post by VLM »

madamelic wrote: post #14
smbullet wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook "black holed" me after two phone interviews. Had to email them them a couple weeks later to see what was up. Never seen that before. Edit: I guess "black holed" isn't the right term since I did get an interview but you know what I mean

I call it 'Ghosted'. Basically, you are talking, you both like each other and then suddenly you don't hear from the other person. I had a few companies ghost me and it was annoying. I don't entirely mind if I apply and just never hear back, I just get to laugh at them when they email me two months later asking for interview.

I've seen this as a strategy for H1B fraud, months after accepting applications everyone good is probably employed somewhere, so suddenly we've recently discovered there are no qualified local applicants for the job position H1B stamped approved.

If you want to make the HR person extremely angry then feign interest and you've ruined their whole H1B process. Its kinda funny to do. Sometimes they'll slam the phone down or sound like they're about to cry. If they're made of sterner stuff you'll get requirements like an in person interview at 4am or an interview within the hour in person (for a job 100 miles away).

Re: Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

#184

Post by penguat »

dizzystar wrote: post #119
apsec112 wrote: post #3

In my job search, I've been surprised by how often you submit a resume online, and then you don't even get a rejection email. It's a true "black hole" in that you never hear back, not even with a "no thanks". I think it's disrespectful of candidates to ask them to spend time filling out an application, and then leave them hanging because you're (presumably) too lazy to read it.

I'm the total opposite. I absolutely hate rejection letters. They give me no upside feeling and they are all a downer. I'm applying to jobs because I sort of need one, not because I'm out to get social goodwill. This feeling of sinking "ugh" only worsens on days when I get 3 or more rejection letters. If you do send a rejection letter, at least make sure it has proper grammar and spelling, and please send it within,…

Where I work it is standard policy to send meaningful feedback after a face-to-face interview. We actively work to make this helpful.

Re: Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

#185

Post by prolly_a_moron »

mooreds wrote: post #177
paradite wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's generously assume that you meet and have excellent working relationships with 100 people at each of the 4 jobs you've had. You need to realize that social life and networking goes well beyond your workplace.

This! Meetups, conferences, and social events are all great places to meet someone who might know someone who needs you skills. Yes, the connection will be far weaker than any connection with a former colleague, but sometimes all you need is an inside connection to make your resume stand out just a bit more and to be that less of an unknown. Weak connections actually being you into vastly different networks.

We must live vastly different lives. Otherwise, why would anyone want to spend their spare social time in job hunt mode? Sometimes I want to foster relationships I already have, not eternally be working on new ones.

Re: Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

#186

Post by ryandrake »

dalbasal wrote: post #159
ryandrake wrote: post #114

Whenever this subject comes up, predictably the answer here is always Blah blah blah network network network. For a demographic always looking for the scalable solution to a problem, HN seems pretty attached to the least scalable option. The numbers just don't make sense to me. Let's generously assume that you meet and have excellent working relationships with 100 people at each of the 4 jobs you've had. Of those 400…

You seem to be taking a somewhat minority position, based on replies. I'm with you, but I think I see where others are coming from. I had job referrals before, and it can work. The dynamics of this are complicated, but the bottom line seems to be that networking works when it works, but not always or for everyone or in every job market. The reality is that lots of jobs get filled every day with a process very much li…

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it doesn't work. Surveys of people who got their last job show that many (most?) of them got it through a personal/professional connection. I think a lot of the replies here think I'm saying it doesn't work. It clearly does.

What I'm saying is that it doesn't seem reliable or scalable. Looking at my own network, the one's I've kept up with[1], which I think is pretty average, there are only a handful of people who actually work at a company I'd one day be interested in joining. I know I would easily exhaust the whole pool in a single job search (ask me how I know this). I'm not going to rely on that. To sum up the reliability aspect: I can't foresee a point in my career when I'll ever be able to say "I can rely entirely on my network for my next job search." If you can, congratulations, that's an enviable position.

To me, networking is like that great tool in your toolbox that _really works_ when it works. I think the network approach is most appropriate as a "fallback" when you are desperate for a job, would take anything, and can literally tap everyone you know in hopes of finding _something_.

1: That's another not-so-scalable aspect of networking: Maintenance. I would never out of the blue E-mail a former colleague with "Hey, I know I haven't talked to you even once in 20 years, but, HOW'S IT GOING?!? :) I noticed you work at a company I'm interested in [...]" Awkward! You have to actually keep up with everyone like you would a friend. I've seen people who can do it well, but jeez it must be positively exhausting staying in touch like that.

Re: Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

#187

Post by wott »

mixedbit wrote: post #150
apsec112 wrote: post #3

In my job search, I've been surprised by how often you submit a resume online, and then you don't even get a rejection email. It's a true "black hole" in that you never hear back, not even with a "no thanks". I think it's disrespectful of candidates to ask them to spend time filling out an application, and then leave them hanging because you're (presumably) too lazy to read it.

I wonder how often the "We're Hiring" links on companies landing pages are there only to make the business look healthy and growing while in fact the company is not hiring.

Yes, and sometimes you can tell from a reference number that includes figures looking suspiciously like a year, that the "job offer" has been lying there for 3 or 4 years. You can see the dust layers on it.

Re: Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

#188

Post by bzbarsky »

nougatine wrote: post #138
TuringNYC wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insider perspective here: At a past employer, a Fortune 100 public company, the best roles were already slotted by senior execs for liked insiders and/or friends&family in the community. The job posting was just a formality, the end result was known well in advance of any job posting. Submissions to these job postings just languished because there was no one pressuring HR to sift through them, and it was well known i…

That's asinine. Because of some internal policy, you guarantee to waste people's time. It's already an asymmetric process, but behaviour like this makes it even more lopsided and plain wasteful.

It's not just internal policy. There are various laws requiring public posting of positions in various circumstances.

Of course then not actually looking at the applications is a violation of at least the spirit of the law. Sometimes also the letter.

Re: Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

#189

Post by wott »

pm90 wrote: post #82
eli_gottlieb wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did an on-site almost two weeks ago and haven't heard anything :-/.

That is incredibly frustrating and unprofessional. You have GOT to get in touch with the recruiter/point of contact. Sometimes recruiters leave, or there is a bug in the system and you get dropped, whatever. Just try contacting them to know for sure what happened.

Contacting will probably not get him to know what happened. He will most likely get whatever standard bullshit excuse comes across the mind of his respondent at the time. Anyway, it might revive his application a bit or at least get him a final no.

Re: Thanks for Submitting Your Résumé to This Black Hole

#190

Post by thewhitetulip »

mooreds wrote: post #182
thewhitetulip wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I applied once at an Indian/US firm from HN thread. You won't believe how unprofessional they were. I never got a single reply back until I emailed them, and I had a coding exam where I created an app, they said they'll reply in a week, after a month they said "sorry blah blah", that too, after two emails of mine aaking " you said a week, what is the status?". Rather than going through this ordeal I'd prefer if they…

That's horrifying and worth posting on Glassdoor.

Yes, I was thinking of doing the same few days later. It wasn't surprising, their behavior, considering the feedabck on glassdoor.
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