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Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

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Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#181

Post by Lagged2Death »

marknutter wrote: post #133
callmeal wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually they are[1]. And if you want to consider things like roads, railways and other infrastructure -- think about how almost every private institution that built that infrastructure went bankrupt and had to be bailed out by the taxpayers. A lot of the "government is inefficient" talk comes from people who want all regulation to go away for their own benefit. A little searching will also show you a long list of pr…

Nobody ever argues that roads, railroads, and highways are an unfair tax burden. It's such a ridiculous straw man. The beef that most Libertarians have with government spending is with entitlement programs.

Why don't roads count as an "entitlement program?"

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#182

Post by ska »

dmichulke wrote: post #129
vacri wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that people would spend as much on charity as they do on taxes is one of the most clearly bunkum libertarian fantasies out there. Private charities come nowhere near modern government levels of welfare, and never have (that's why we have modern levels of welfare).

You do realize that government actually doesn't earn the money but takes it away from others that earn it. It's not as if with government we have more money. So all that matters is efficiency and if a charity is more efficient than a government, why is there no state where you can choose whom to give (at least part of) your taxes?

This is a common fallacy, which hurts the ability to reason usefully about problems like those in this thread (regardless of where you fall on the "size of government" issue).

The fallacy is in imagining it is meaningful to separate money (earned or otherwise) from the system of government it was generated in. Your ability to "earn the money" is fundamentally tied to this system, and if you change one, you change the other necessarily (not a comment on the direction of the delta). Thinking about the economy as a thing that exists on its own, and the government as an institution that just "takes away" from this is just nonsensical.

The statement "It's not as if with government we have more money" is quite likely a category error. After all the ideas of money and the ideas of government are so deeply intertwined in their evolution that people haven't managed to separate them, ahistorical thought experiments in common introductory economics notwithstanding.

For what it's worth, I am sympathetic to some of the arguments you are heading towards, I just object to the sloppy thinking variants of them - which are the most common, unfortunately.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#183

Post by geodel »

xapata wrote: post #139
refurb wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if you're living in the US, but I do and I have the exact opposite viewpoint. The amount of waste, corruption and poor planning by the gov't makes me feel like I'm throwing money away. I'd rather give it a charity since then I'd know a majority of it had an impact. I think if the gov't was a bit more efficient and could be shown to be good stewards of money I'd probably hate paying taxes a lot less.

In my experience, every large organization is terribly managed and inefficient. The government not noticeably different. I guess I'm saying I don't mind paying taxes. I consider the tax rate when choosing how much to charge my customers. I'm sure you do the same when choosing a job. If you paid less in tax, you'd earn less money. Obviously not at a 1:1 ratio, but it's something to keep in mind.

Even as the very cautious spender I'd imagine I have wasted at least few hundred dollars between me and spouse just since new year. So at large scale even larger wastage does not look inconceivable.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#184

Post by throwaway2016a »

callmeal wrote: post #105
refurb wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if you're living in the US, but I do and I have the exact opposite viewpoint. The amount of waste, corruption and poor planning by the gov't makes me feel like I'm throwing money away. I'd rather give it a charity since then I'd know a majority of it had an impact. I think if the gov't was a bit more efficient and could be shown to be good stewards of money I'd probably hate paying taxes a lot less.

Actually they are[1]. And if you want to consider things like roads, railways and other infrastructure -- think about how almost every private institution that built that infrastructure went bankrupt and had to be bailed out by the taxpayers. A lot of the "government is inefficient" talk comes from people who want all regulation to go away for their own benefit. A little searching will also show you a long list of pr…

> think about how almost every private institution that built that infrastructure went bankrupt and had to be bailed out by the taxpayers.

Did they really, though? "Have to be" bailed out I mean. They were bailed out, yes, but... just as a thought experiment... perhaps we should have let them go under?

Edit:

Going bankrupt implies either mismanagement, failure to lower cost and increase margins, or the market does not value their service.

If it is the first two, going bankrupt will potentially allow them to sell off their assets to new management who might do a better job. If it is the last one, then they should be shut down.

All the government bailing them out does is prop up bad management and artificially lower prices at the expense of the tax payer having to pay them on the other end. (me paying for half empty train cars even though I haven't ridden a train in years)

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#185

Post by dota168 »

refurb wrote: post #21
vinhboy wrote: post #17

> Nobody likes paying high taxes, but I don’t mind. How refreshing. I agree with him. Paying my taxes is a point of pride for me. It's a repayment for all those years I was poor and the government paid for me to live and go to school.

Not sure if you're living in the US, but I do and I have the exact opposite viewpoint. The amount of waste, corruption and poor planning by the gov't makes me feel like I'm throwing money away. I'd rather give it a charity since then I'd know a majority of it had an impact. I think if the gov't was a bit more efficient and could be shown to be good stewards of money I'd probably hate paying taxes a lot less.

Have you been outside the US? You are living in the USA bubble.

Go to a 3rd world country and you'll understand what government corruption and waste is.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#186

Post by k-mcgrady »

wtvanhest wrote: post #11

Off topic, but why did the creator of this site make the top bar move when scrolling? That makes it 100% impossible to read for people who use the top of the screen as a line to read along. Also, is their a chrome extension to cancel that functionality?

I'm using latest Chrome and it's not happening to me. I have UBlock Origin installed but also tried with it disabled and still no issue.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#187

Post by harryh »

grecy wrote: post #57

I have always viewed debt as a promise of future labor. i.e. if I have debt now, I must go to work in the future to pay it back. Because I have no debt, I don't have to go to work, and can spend the next two years driving around Africa. I'm so passionate about saving money I even wrote an e-book on how to do it: http://theroadchoseme.com/work-less-to-live-your-dreams

Now turn it around. What is money? Money is someone else's debt. Money is a promise that someone else will go to work for you in the future to pay it back.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#188

Post by SN76477 »

grecy wrote: post #57

I have always viewed debt as a promise of future labor. i.e. if I have debt now, I must go to work in the future to pay it back. Because I have no debt, I don't have to go to work, and can spend the next two years driving around Africa. I'm so passionate about saving money I even wrote an e-book on how to do it: http://theroadchoseme.com/work-less-to-live-your-dreams

I view debt as the same way. Debt is a form of pressure and motivation.

I do not however like to save money, I prefer to invest it.

I will get your ebook, thanks for the info.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#189

Post by brightball »

padobson wrote: post #174
vinhboy wrote: post #17

> Nobody likes paying high taxes, but I don’t mind. How refreshing. I agree with him. Paying my taxes is a point of pride for me. It's a repayment for all those years I was poor and the government paid for me to live and go to school.

In the context of living a debt-free existence, I have to disagree. In the monetary policy environment we live in, having debt is the most sensible way to build wealth. Dollars are a terrible store of value. Dollars invested in a savings account are almost as bad. Securities, real estate, and inventory are much better. Dollars invested in education and advertising to multiply the value of securities, real estate and…

A lot of people get confused when talking about debt just because types of debt are different.

Using debt to generate income = good. Using debt to buy stuff you can't afford = bad.

The first pays itself back while the latter does not.

When somebody like Dave Ramsey is talking about debt, he's talking about paying off credit card bills, car loans, student loans, mortgages - payments that you're making that leave you personally saddled. Increasing your cash flow by decreasing your expenses.

When somebody like the Robert Kiyosaki (Rich Dad, Poor Dad) talks about debt he's talking about it in the context that you are: using debt to create an income generating asset, leveraging the tax advantage to increase cash flow and holding the asset as more valuable because held cash would simply result in devaluation through inflation. Increasing your cash flow by generating more cash flow.

Headlines should really start trying to clarify Bad debt vs Good debt.

Re: Anthony Bourdain on not having debt

#190

Post by overcast »

vinhboy wrote: post #17

> Nobody likes paying high taxes, but I don’t mind. How refreshing. I agree with him. Paying my taxes is a point of pride for me. It's a repayment for all those years I was poor and the government paid for me to live and go to school.

I thought that was what I was already doing paying back + interest on school loans?
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