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Sexism at Uber from Female Management

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Re: Sexism at Uber from Female Management

#181

Post by armandososa »

tetromino_ wrote: post #179
m3rc wrote: post #135

Uh, you can still be sexist and also be a jerk... are you asking if people can only be one? And FFS, just look at women in their goddamn eyes, like a normal person. Not being sexist is like the easiest thing in the world, just don't be weird.

> just look at women in their goddamn eyes, like a normal person s/normal person/socially well-adjusted American/ A big fraction of the world's population is strongly conditioned against looking in someone's eyes outside e.g. intimate or family settings.

In my culture, a deep stare in the eyes means defiance.

Re: Sexism at Uber from Female Management

#182

Post by gotofritz »

vkou wrote: post #84
mi100hael wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not wrong, but it seems like in these recent cases, HR has done a terrible job protecting Uber from liability and lawsuits.

It has, however, done a great job of protecting its managers (At the expense of the company.) That's what happens when you let the clowns run the asylum.

Hey, those clowns built that asylum!

Re: Sexism at Uber from Female Management

#183

Post by ceras »

huffmsa wrote: post #162
ceras wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't stop me from joining a company that's clearly better than the rest. But engineers have a lot of comparably good options in hub cities, so it's reasonable to be picky about small stuff - we can afford to be. A formal dress code does have real downsides: it (1) costs money, (2) wastes closet space (it's a premium in NYC!), and (3) makes biking to work or otherwise living a pre-/post-work active life more of…

The mistake you're making is that "work clothing" needs to be separate from your "after work clothing". NYC there is no excuse for not finding good and reasonably priced tailors. You might get dirty looks from those who look worse than you, but suits do in fact make the man.

I'm fairly active and don't care for feeling hot in the summers or restricted in general. Feel free to rock your own suit, but it's not a "mistake" to disagree with you.

Re: Sexism at Uber from Female Management

#184

Post by armandososa »

m3rc wrote: post #135

Uh, you can still be sexist and also be a jerk... are you asking if people can only be one? And FFS, just look at women in their goddamn eyes, like a normal person. Not being sexist is like the easiest thing in the world, just don't be weird.

Do you honestly think that's what I'm asking or just want to be confrontational? (I re-read my question and I don't believe that's what I'm saying, but I'm not a native english speaker).

To clear my question: If I'm being really mean to you how can you confidently say that it is because I have bias against your gender or your race and not because a) I'm mean to everybody or b) I don't like you in particular (which is the case so far).

Same case: If somebody hates my guts is it because a Mexican dude or is it because I'm like, insufferable? I guess that if he says "Go back to Mexico, you beaner" the answer is clear, but if you instead downvote everything I post… how could I tell if it's either or both?

Re: Sexism at Uber from Female Management

#185

Post by randycupertino »

caminante wrote: post #114
MBCook wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comments about the tank top were blatant sexism. The rest just seemed like terrible management.

I'm struggling to understand how that's sexism. Can you explain your criteria for sexism? (I'm asking in good faith.)

I'm curious about this, too. If a guy wore a tanktop like this http://g02.a.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1liNdIXXXXXamXpXXq6xXFXXXs/201.... It would be equally non-work appropriate.

The office should have just implemented a dress code for everyone.

Re: Sexism at Uber from Female Management

#186

Post by jquast »

vkou wrote: post #97
hellcow wrote: post #12

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't see anything that the manager is doing wrong. We can debate whether the manager is effective at her job, but it seems clear to me this is not an example of sexism. The only citation I can find relevant to the claim of sexism is that she was asked not to wear a tank-top to work. It may very well be that a tank-top is inappropriate attire at Uber's workplace. At IBM and many o…

> Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't see anything that the manager is doing wrong. We can debate whether the manager is effective at her job, but it seems clear to me this is not an example of sexism. As a man, I have never had a single manager comment on the clothes I've chosen to wear at work... Or had my attire compared to a guy playing ping-pong in a speedo.

I witnessed male worker fired on the spot for wearing jeans to work instead of slacks (general motors). I was also once given a warning when my belt and shoes did not match (black and brown).

I went to a business college, and we were taught to dress professionally, I think we spent a full day on the topic in "business communications" course. We most definitely discussed that cleavage should not be shown and dress length should be appropriate. I worked in this college as a tutor, and we also required button-up shirts, tucked in, with a belt, and dress shoes, even though we made minimum wage. "Dress for respect"

Re: Sexism at Uber from Female Management

#187

Post by zepto »

imaginenore wrote: post #170
zepto wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah - males have to wear a coat and tie in order to be taken seriously in tech companies - why should it be different with women? Oh wait...

Are you saying it's not true for the males? In most big corporations you're required to ear a shirt and formal pants. Some require ties.

I don't know if it's true at Uber, but uber is not a typical big corporations and it's often not true at startups.

My point is that it can certainly be sexism depending on the company in question.

Re: Sexism at Uber from Female Management

#188

Post by tomp »

SolarNet wrote: post #68
tomp wrote: post #34

So... Tina's an asshole/jerk/bitch, but where's the sexism?! (I'm not disputing sexism in Susan Fowler's case.)

The manager wasn't telling male workers to wear long sleeved shirts, so that's the most obvious one. It was also obviously the last straw. Often in stories like these the last straw seems pretty stupid compared to a larger problem. People have a breaking point but it's often a small thing that puts them over it, the straw that broke the camels back. Although the story doesn't spell out the gender of everyone on the t…

> The manager wasn't telling male workers to wear long sleeved shirts, so that's the most obvious one

You don't know that.

In general if dress codes are sexist, they're sexist against men. Women have a much broader repertoire of appropriate clothing (skirt or pants, blouse or shirt, tie or no tie) than men (pants, shirt and tie, suit optional).

Re: Sexism at Uber from Female Management

#189

Post by Marconium »

Let's face it, some clothes that women wear are distracting for men, including a tank top. It is an animal instinct to look at beautiful women and be attracted to them. It is like putting a chocolate infront of you and saying you cannot eat it. Of course, you will resist but it will make focusing harder for you.

Re: Sexism at Uber from Female Management

#190

Post by raarts »

Marconium wrote: post #189

Let's face it, some clothes that women wear are distracting for men, including a tank top. It is an animal instinct to look at beautiful women and be attracted to them. It is like putting a chocolate infront of you and saying you cannot eat it. Of course, you will resist but it will make focusing harder for you.

A tank top doesn't make a woman beautiful. It makes some women more attractive yes. If you are too distracted by it, it's you who are to blame for lack of self control. Find ways around that, it's called character building you'll find it useful in life in general.
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