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Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

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Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#181

Post by raverbashing »

uptownfunk wrote: post #131
lr4444lr wrote: post #23

Taking your description at face value, something is incongruous between how you present yourself in person vs. on your resumé. I can't see how otherwise despite your qualifications on paper and in your phone conversation why a company would spend their time bringing you onsite for a specific position, and then find you unfit but still want to consider you for something else. There seems to be a disconnect that doesn'…

Definitely agree with the above. Some thoughts.. I'm Indian-bodied but was born and raised in the states. When I was in my early 20s I lived on and off in India for about 5 years (about 6 months at a time). So I've had a decent amount of exposure to Indians of all types (Indian and American born). I've also worked with a fair amount of Indians over the course of the last few years. These may not be the case with you,…

You are right.

The thing with stereotypes is that it lingers. But people from different generations might do away with that

Now, a Project Management position in a smaller company might require different skills. Being a Product Owner of a feature in a bigger product with broken down requirements coming from upstream is a very different job than POing at a smaller company where you have to come up with requirements based on goals.

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#182

Post by oldjobhunter »

Take some time off. Instead of getting frustrated at your current job and doing something rash like quitting without a backup plan, take a week or two off from work asap. Give yourself some breathing room.

Think about why you're being rejected - you have just not yet found the job that fits you. So keep looking. It's hard but it will happen. Be positive yaar :)

You also should think of the people in your network who work at companies you're interested in. Finding a good role once you cross a certain threshold is difficult, is it possible that you have high standards and are looking down on some of the interviewers?

Forget about being Indian. If you don't care about it, you'll only be focused on what you bring to the table. You don't want to work in a team where race matters anyway.

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#183

Post by blisterpeanuts »

misja111 wrote: post #135
throawayname wrote: post #87

What are you willing to sacrifice? I can give you an answer, but you won't like it. As an Indian man you'll be discriminated against. Period. Lots of empirical proof for that, not just job wise but in lots of other cases (dating, etc). While folks here will give you lots of tips on the professional side, here are a few actionable things you can do to minimize racial bias: - Change your name to an americanized version…

I am not denying that discrimination is an issue in the US but I think in OP's case in doesn't look like this is his main problem. Here is why not: - OP is not hiding the fact that he his Indian. It probably shows in his name, on his CV and in his slight accent during phone interviews. Nevertheless, he has been invited for interviews and has even frequently made it to the final round. If being Indian was such an issu…

I agree; I thought it was odd that he was being offered other positions (what kind of positions, OP?) and it sounds as though he's perhaps not as qualified as he thinks for the position he's seeking.

All these people talking about discrimination against South Asians... I don't know, every tech company today has South Asians and East Asians and just about every other ethnicity. I've worked on teams with Indians and Pakistanis for decades now, and I have yet to hear of discrimination, or to witness it.

Actually, our economy would grind to a halt if we got rid of all these Asian chaps. And why would we? As a rule, they're smart, they work hard, they're pretty well trained. The one slight stereotype if any, that I would confess to is that the Asians as a group tend not to be mavericks and cowboys. U.S. people and English, and to a lesser extent other Europeans, tend to produce more mavericks and cowboy programmers who question authority, think outside the box, etc. That may be changing, as more Asian folks are raised and educated in the U.S.

OP, I would also agree, don't change your name, tint your hair, and "become Western". Take pride in your heritage, for Pete's sake. Who likes a sycophant? Be yourself. And, perhaps, think about what else you might be qualified for that companies are seeing in you that you're not seeing in yourself. Sometimes you have to go where the market is.

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#185

Post by akappa »

raverbashing wrote: post #177
akappa wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting. Are you aware of any stereotype about/against italians?

In Canada the stereotypes I heard about Italians weren't the nicest ones but I see their reasons But the perception is usually neutral it seems

What kind of reasons? Old stuff like mafia or instead something (semi-)factual like our relaxed relationship with time management?

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#186

Post by whineBuster »

Nothing is wrong with you.

It's neat, your answer is in your question. These companies are coming back and saying they have a different role for you.

Yet, instead of being curious for a change, you turn them down? Bizarre.

Perhaps you don't want change after all, since your skillset is similar, they probably want to help you.

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#187

Post by [deleted] »

dorfsmay wrote: post #174
mchannon wrote: post #170

Pretty much all of these other posters appear to agree that it's some form of "here's what's wrong with you", when in fact, none of us can know if that's the case. But let's look at the numbers. Pretend every onsite interview had a random 10% chance of resulting in an offer. 10% offends certain people's sensibilities, but in this crazy bubble, I'd say for some businesses, it's on the high side. Management is a politi…

I'm in a much more technical role, so it might be different, I agree that 50 application is low, but 7 onsites with no result seems high. My experience is that by the time a company brings you on site, you're in the 3 candidate, or even the only one and this is the last check.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#188

Post by dahart »

The most common reason I've turned down very qualified candidates is that they didn't appear to want the job very badly, relative to other candidates, and didn't seem willing to extend much effort to appear interested in the job they were applying for.

Some very experienced applicants seem to assume their experience weighs so heavily that their chances of getting the job are better than anyone else's, and that there's nothing else they can do to get the job aside from fill out the form and show up for the interview.

I've had very experienced candidates come to an interview and complain about their current jobs, and complain about how stupid all the young inexperienced kids around them are. I love hiring experienced people, but that is a total turn-off, and an indicator that this person will not try to work with others, will not fit in, and generally will not perform well.

You mentioned that you hate your current job. So my question is whether you're knowingly or unknowingly communicating that during your interviews. Even if you're not saying it out loud, one's demeanor, body language, tone, excitement level, etc. can all expose someone who's unhappy doing what they're doing, and presenting yourself as unhappy being a PM is - in my experience - the worst thing you can do.

Some other ways experience can work against you include that your salary is at the high end so employers feel they can get equally good work for less money, and that your experience has hardened you in the operating procedures of other companies. Employers want to feel that you're open to adapting, willing to learn, and will go out of your way to shed any old dogma you have that doesn't fit, and adopt new dogma that benefits the new company. A PM job also involves a lot of rallying people, so you have to come off as a person who's able to tell a good story and convince others to do what you need and follow your lead.

Good luck to you, and please keep in mind that nobody here knows what's wrong. It could be you or could be racial or could be a bubble job market in the area you're applying... all of these things are absolute speculation. Your question doesn't have enough information for anyone to know.

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#189

Post by raverbashing »

akappa wrote: post #185
raverbashing wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Canada the stereotypes I heard about Italians weren't the nicest ones but I see their reasons But the perception is usually neutral it seems

What kind of reasons? Old stuff like mafia or instead something (semi-)factual like our relaxed relationship with time management?

The Mafia is not "old stuff" in some parts of Quebec (and maybe other places)

Re: Ask HN: 50 job applications, 15 interviews, 7 onsites, and no offer – what next?

#190

Post by adrusi »

united893 wrote: post #105
microcolonel wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is being clear and understandable not an important professional capability? If not, then why does the interview require it?

> A: Please take a seat. As you know, we hired you because you did great on your interview. But we recently noticed that you speak with an Indian accent. Did you attempted to hide your accent during the interview? > B: Uh, maybe a little? I've been taking accent reduction classes and learned to speak without one, but can't keep it up 24/7. > A: Thanks for your honestly. Unfortunately we'll have to let you go. Please…

That doesn't sound like a very likely reaction. The acting classes are working, so if A really can't tolerate B's accent, why not just tell him to keep taking those lessons and practicing? Maybe offer to pay for them.
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