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How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

theintercept.com

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Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#181

Post by Chris2048 »

mlmlmasd wrote: post #148
Chris2048 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great. Was has that got to do with this? OP didn't 'criticize Trump', they called another poster 'intentionally obtuse' for not assuming liberal premises.

You don't get it. Calling them 'liberal premises' makes you look like a dumbass.

I'm a 'dumbass' for even questioning that liberal premises are not in any way political/ideologically motivated beliefs or perspectives, as opposed to facts you must not even be seen to question...

..AKA not drinking the kool-aid.

And, as if it need to be said, your insults break HN civility rules.

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#182

Post by dgut »

harry8 wrote: post #176
dgut wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I pointed out these perks in response to some comments in this thread claiming Thiel is anti LGBT, racist and sexist. The company profile is in fact very diverse [1]. [1] https://www.palantir.com/diversity/

Peter Thiel - date rape is belated regret. I call sexist. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/21/peter-thi... Apartheid is good - I call racist. http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/11/03/500... Palantir are freaking evil article hits the front page. "Hey come and work fcr palantir" is top post. Do you work for palantir dgut? You have time for a follow up about how good palantir is to work f…

Thiel wrote a book 22 years ago under his college years. So what? He later retreated that position and apologized. I consider it a good thing when people discuss sensitive topics.

It's pointless to discuss what Thiel said or not about apartheid, since the allegations are purely anecdotal.

Calm down your paranoia.

Edit: I want to point out that in the country where I currently reside, this is a very natural discussion [1]

[1] https://morgenbladet.no/2016/08/elin-orjasaeter-voldtekt-og-...

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#183

Post by consentist »

zzzeek wrote: post #173
consentist wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Police.

this entire subthread is entertaining the notion that a true libertarian society would have no government capable of using force against the citizenry. If the "police" here are hired as a private contractor, who is hiring them? the government ? (then you have government coercion). Random small communities pooling together? (then you have the wealthiest and most powerful citizens owning the police. in other parts of t…

> this entire subthread is entertaining the notion that a true libertarian society would have no government capable of using force against the citizenry.

Libertarianism in simple terms means emphasis on individualism and removing state from public welfare, education etc. These are the defining characterstics.

In all varitions of libertarianism except ancap, there is a government. It enforces a minimal constitution. Govt employs people such as police to enfoce it. Police are granted liberties that noone else have. Govt will be funded, most likely, with a flat amount "tax" per head.

> If the "police" here are hired as a private contractor, who is hiring them? the government ? (then you have government coercion).

Why its not coercion ? Because everyone explicitly consent to the constitution/govt. A democracy can only transition to libertarianism if 100% votes yes. Or secede.

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#184

Post by muninn_ »

antisthenes wrote: post #180
zzzeek wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

who enforces it?

You can't argue with them. Government = bad, Taxes = theft, is what all their arguments boil down to and you end up going around in a circle. They don't get that monopoly on use of violence as ultimate arbitration is what allows society to exist in the first place. "Non aggression principle" LMAO. Look at Somalia and other failed African states. If libertarians weren't socially and economically illiterate, they'd all…

Well, as an alternative look at North Korea. Just like there are various levels of good governments, there can be good levels of anarchy. Somalia isn't a great example to use here. Furthermore, it has a government, so why would libertarians flock there? What's wrong with having a principle of nonaggression? Why is that worthy of ridicule?

I'll also add, your "debate style" is very counter-productive. Even if you loath a belief, the worst thing you can do to change that person's mind is insult them and call their views "la-la land".

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#185

Post by harry8 »

dgut wrote: post #182
harry8 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Peter Thiel - date rape is belated regret. I call sexist. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/21/peter-thi... Apartheid is good - I call racist. http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/11/03/500... Palantir are freaking evil article hits the front page. "Hey come and work fcr palantir" is top post. Do you work for palantir dgut? You have time for a follow up about how good palantir is to work f…

Thiel wrote a book 22 years ago under his college years. So what? He later retreated that position and apologized. I consider it a good thing when people discuss sensitive topics. It's pointless to discuss what Thiel said or not about apartheid, since the allegations are purely anecdotal. Calm down your paranoia. Edit: I want to point out that in the country where I currently reside, this is a very natural discussion…

Still no time to substantiate your claims in the top post but time for this non-event, though. I call it how it looks, feel free to provide substance to the claims in your original post. That would seem appropriate to HN.

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#186

Post by consentist »

antisthenes wrote: post #180
zzzeek wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

who enforces it?

You can't argue with them. Government = bad, Taxes = theft, is what all their arguments boil down to and you end up going around in a circle. They don't get that monopoly on use of violence as ultimate arbitration is what allows society to exist in the first place. "Non aggression principle" LMAO. Look at Somalia and other failed African states. If libertarians weren't socially and economically illiterate, they'd all…

> Government = bad

Because world has not seen a libertarian government yet.

> Taxes = theft

There are two arguments here. 1. Tax Amount. 2. Consent.

Most of the arugment against taxes from libertarins pov is the amount. Govts does provide a useful service but the pricing is too costly.

A libertarian may immigrate to a favourable country which gives best bang for the buck (for which somalia fails) and in process giving new govt the required consent to make taxation consistent with libertarianism.

> They don't get that monopoly on use of violence as ultimate arbitration is what allows society to exist in the first place.

You are thinking of anarcho-capitalism (a special case of libertarianism nonetheless) which I presume we are not talking about. Then libertarian govt still hold the monopoly on violence and only justifiable in very limited cases.

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#187

Post by Oxitendwe »

Anderkent wrote: post #67
potatosoup wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He represents a real threat to the safety of women, minorities, and immigrants As an immigrant myself, I keep seeing famous people write this, but I want some kind of "citation needed." What plans does this actually refer to?

It's not a complaint about any specific plans he has made, it's a complaint about his general approach to those communities. The risk is not that he'll implement this particular idea , it's that all of his ideas are shaped by his abusive personality.

So, what you're saying is, you have no real evidence that his policies are going to adversely affect any of these groups?

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#188

Post by rorykoehler »

cromwellian wrote: post #167
knowaveragejoe wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to see what this has to do with Peter Thiel's self-identification as a libertarian.

Because he complains about government funding and distortion in markets, but became a billionaire with Palantir thanks to government funding. It's hypocritical for "libertarians" to rail against government spending, crony capitalism, and the government picking winners, and then turn around and benefit from exactly that.

It's not exactly surprising as right-libertarian is a paradoxical concept. It only works if you're loaded. No actual poor person could possibly ever be considered at liberty seeing as money dictates access.

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#189

Post by humanrebar »

foldr wrote: post #179
humanrebar wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can realize that: * half of all pregnancies are accidental * pregnancies only happen by accident with heterosexual couples * unprepared parents is a social and economic issue ...without being anti anyone.

Still speaking in code. Do you think gay marriage should be legal or not? If not, then at the very least you are anti-me, as I'm in a gay marriage. (And as far as I can tell my marriage hasn't led to any increase in unplanned pregnancies, if that's what's worrying you.)

The fact that you are both defensive and not interested in a new viewpoint makes me decline to give you a response to that question. I've already said I'm not anti-anybody. Let's not be so eager to outgroup our allies.

Re: How Peter Thiel’s Palantir helped expand the NSA’s global spy network

#190

Post by rvdavis »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #151
beachstartup wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i'm saying that legal and illegal immigration are two different things. the fact that steve bannon dislikes both types and probably (almost certainly) dislikes non-white people has nothing to do with my point. let's say all your worst fears are true, and bannon secretly is literally hitler. does that change the fact that legal vs. illegal immigrants are different, and should be treated differently, with a different s…

You were clearly trying to paint "the other side" as unreasonable zealots, who pretend that upstanding, hardworking immigrants are under threat, when really it's only the classic illegal immigrant stereotype that your side have a problem with. (This stereotype is also BS but that's a different story...) Unfortunately for you, someone right at the very top of the Republican party that is in charge right now said somet…

Hardly. He stated that there is a difference between illegal and legal immigration, and that right now, somehow, that distinction is being lost in the hyperbole. One side of the argument is being unfairly portrayed as a horde of white supremacists/nationalists/racists/etc, because they make this distinction. At the same time, amnesty for illegal immigrants is being pushed by the other side as a humanitarian concern. Both sides are right to feel as they do, but good luck trying to find common ground in this current political environment.
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