Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

blog.mozilla.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 336 posts

Re: Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

#181

Post by throwanem »

hackuser wrote: post #147
throwanem wrote: post #144

I get that there are a lot of people here who are really concerned that, without XUL and XPCOM, there will no longer be a reason to choose Firefox over Chrome. What I think they overlook is that, right now, it is impossible to recommend Firefox in any case, because it performs so poorly compared to Chrome that no one will take such a recommendation seriously. I've been using Firefox since back when it was still calle…

> it is impossible to recommend Firefox in any case, because it performs so poorly compared to Chrome ... I understand that this is your experience, but what is the basis for saying this is generally true? It's not my experience; theoretically, can't I also say my experience is generally true?

The experience of Firefox getting slow over time is hardly unique to me. In any case, if it weren't a relatively common problem, it seems unlikely Mozilla would rearchitect the browser to alleviate it, especially given that some users are very distressed by the side effects of the change.

Re: Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

#182

Post by Animats »

hackuser wrote: post #180
Animats wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare [1] and [2] and see if you can figure out why they are so different. [1] https://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qpr... [2] https://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qpr...

Thanks, but you'll understand if I'm not taking the test. What is the difference?

I don't know. I suspect that whatever drives that site is broken. But StatsCounter says 6.75% for Firefox.

[1] http://gs.statcounter.com/?chart_type=line&statType=Browser

Re: Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

#183

Post by McCirculaire »

smnscu wrote: post #46
pvg wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the most secure browser available. That's a not a 'might be legitimate' use case.

Citation needed. I found this [0] but maybe you have a better source. This was interesting though: > In the most recent Pwn2Own hacking competition, Chrome came out ahead of every other browser with only one exploit being successfully executed. 0: https://tiptopsecurity.com/what-is-the-most-secure-web-brows...

http://www.cvedetails.com/product/3264/Mozilla-Firefox.html?.... http://www.cvedetails.com/product/15031/Google-Chrome.html?v....

Just compare the amount of code execution CVEs found on a yearly basis and the level of severity of each. Then think of how Firefox has much less marketshare than Chrome (FF sits around 8% and its share keeps going down year by year), so Chrome should be a more interesting target for hacking.

Then come back and tell us which browser has the lesser amount, and when some are found, which is most likely to have the more severely exploitable vuln.

Re: Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

#184

Post by beerbaron23 »

McCirculaire wrote: post #140
oblio wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is, why is Chromium the better browser? Firefox 57 will have sandboxing and per-tab processes (most likely) plus a better extension system than Chrome's. Firefox 57 should be at least equivalent to Chromium.

Why is it better? just the two links I'm going to give should be enough to give you pause : http://www.cvedetails.com/product/3264/Mozilla-Firefox.html?... http://www.cvedetails.com/product/15031/Google-Chrome.html?v... During 2016, Firefox had 53 code execution CVE reports. Chrome had 2 . Firefox only has around 8% of the browser marketshare. Chrome sits between 44% and 60% depending on the source. So it's not a cas…

So true there is way more to the browser than the java script engine. So I ran ye old browser showdown on my comp (Fresh everything). Firefox and Chrome are very similar in speed with Java benchmarks, but once you get into the "real-world" type benchmarks, Firefox was faster by a large margin and was almost 3x as fast as Chrome in some tests.

You can take a look at my results here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/58doo8csebp9l62/Bench.pdf?dl=0

Each browser has it's strengths and weaknesses it seems, So I run all of them lol For my day to day tab filled behemoth I have to use Firefox, any other browser can't handle the ~80 tabs I have open at once.

In fact me and my roommate have on going challenges on how many tabs we can keep open and up times of the browsers/OS's (He is on Win7). During our battles we have tried tweaking some things and using odd browsers and such, but to be competitive with one another we have to each use Firefox cause it just has that much better memory management/stability.

Re: Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

#185

Post by sp332 »

JohnTHaller wrote: post #95
cosarara97 wrote: post #2

IMO Firefox has just 2 things to beat Chrome: better add-ons (like treestyle tabs) and politics (made by Mozilla instead of an ads company). They are burning the first one.

Only about 250,000 users use the tab modification extensions that people keep claiming is Firefox's only advantage out of 10s of millions of Firefox users. Addons that greatly alter Firefox's behavior are the main reason for crashes. And maintaining XUL is hampering Firefox future development.

But tabs-on-the-side is important enough that they are running an experiment with a first-party extension right now. https://testpilot.firefox.com/experiments/tab-center It's gong to be a priority for the new extension model to support this kind of thing before FF57.

Re: Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

#186

Post by ecnahc515 »

nine_k wrote: post #146
eveningcoffee wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is still one major reason to stay with Firefox - it is not Chrome.

Chromium isn't, either. But the extension flexibility was one of the major points for me. I'll have to pin Firefox to 56.x in my package manager.

That's a pretty terrible idea. Your web browser is probably the most important piece of software to keep up to date, besides the OS for security reasons.

Re: Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

#187

Post by panoptispeech »

Mozilla doesn't pay nearly as well as the top tech companies out there do. Maybe the people who are left after all the best people leave end up making bad decisions. Human capital matters.

Of course Mozilla's decisions look foolish to us. We (for the most part) are not the ones who couldn't move on to greener pastures.

Re: Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

#188

Post by shandor »

jasonkostempski wrote: post #126
CaptSpify wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The strategy to mimick chrome makes sense, because the masses think this is how the browser -- or as they call it the "internet" -- should look like. But that's what FF has been doing for the past ~5 years, and how has their share been doing? Not so well. Chrome has much more marketing behind it. And it comes from a name that people know and trust. Most people don't know who Mozilla is. And most people don't care a…

Is it still true you can't do extensions for Chrome on Android? If so, they should just do a commercial showing you can use uBlock Origin with it. That could get a good chunk to move on Android and if they use it there they might switch on desktop too.

Definitely. This is exactly the reason I switched from Chrome ro Firefox. I mean, when I'm on mobile it's even more important than on desktop that I have my adblocker in place, as both bandwidth and screen estate are more limited.

Re: Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

#189

Post by michaelmrose »

greggman wrote: post #40
exceptione wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right. I did and do not say every chrome user is stupid, there might be legitimate use-cases. But the vast amount of people just install chrome or get it side-loaded with some freeware and don't even think about their options and the impact of their choice. Now that is less than smart.

Go look at the CVE reports for each browser. Your taking a > 10x risk running anything other than Chrome. These changes Mozilla is making are to fix that.

Making up numbers doesn't help the discussion. Can you prove that firefox users are at all more likely to be infected in practice? I doubt it. You surely can't prove they are 10x.

Re: Firefox 57 as the first release where only WebExtensions will be supported

#190

Post by ravenstine »

XUL has always been pretty terrible, IMO. But it has advantages over Chrome-style addons. Should Firefox support WebExtensions? I'd say absolutely yes. Should Mozilla remove XUL support? I'd say probably not. Or at least it should be optional, as there are clearly some people who want full control of their browser. I'm not one of those people, but I understand where they're coming from, and it would be like a food company deciding that they're getting rid of their other flavors and are just going to sell the one flavor that the competitor is selling out. Unless Firefox has an edge over Chrome, or even Chromium, there's very little reason for me to use it. This is coming from someone who was a Firefox evangelist for years since 2005.

Also, the Electrolysis project taking forever is one reason I ditched Firefox for Chrome, and I suspect I'm not the only one. It was only late last year that it finally got released(I think?), and that was a project being talked about at least since 2010. Chrome had process-per-tab a few years before that, and there was even word that Chrome was being developed in that direction long before its release. Firefox took nearly a decade to compete.

Post reply on HN