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I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

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181–190 of 276 posts

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#181
post #5

You know what a lot of people consider worse than Donald Trump? The status quo. That's what I feel is missing in all this indignation - where were you before? The political system has been deeply broken for decades, with the same unjust policies being pursued regardless of which public face was on it - imperialist militaristic foreign policies abroad, economic inequality at home. All sold to the public with glib mark…

    imperialist militaristic foreign policies abroad,
This didn't exactly happen in a vacuum. A country can't be a major power without trying to gain influence throughout the world; all of the other major powers are doing it too.

Of course, it's also possible to renounce the game of global influence entirely. But be careful what you wish for.

Because that's what we've chosen with Trump: building literal and figurative walls around the country. Apparently we are planning to... isolate ourselves back to greatness?

Perhaps in some ideal world we could be "noble isolationists" and close our borders, eyes, and ears to the world without a populist thirst for xenophobia and racism, secure in the knowledge that other global powers will shape the world (or perhaps become noble isolationists themselves?) for the better in our absence.

I wish I shared that fantasy; it's a particularly nice one.

The United States' meddling in world affairs has ranged from "helpful" to "disastrous." But it's absolute madness to think that others will not attempt to assert control in the power vacuum we're leaving behind. Do you really think Russia will be better for the world than us? Maybe you should ask Ukraine about that one.

    There's a lot not to like about Donald Trump, but for one thing he 
    is an outsider to the established system (I believe in this because 
    of how hard the mainstream media is bent on pulling him down). It 
    is hard for me to see that as anything but an improvement.
A literal billionaire with a cabinet of millionaires and billionaires is now an "outsider." What is wrong with you?

I understand that they are "outsiders" in the sense that they have no experience running any form of government whatsoever.

But these people are not outsiders to the system. They have profited from the system to a degree the average American cannot fathom. They literally are the system.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#182
post #163
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no good reason to allow entry of people from countries that are at (civil) war There is a very good reason: a humanitarian one. I do not know how a nation where 70% of the population calls itself christian could turn away refugees from war-torn countries. > there is no reason for non diplomatic personal Iranians to enter US at all. Top US universities and tech firms beg to differ. The US got the best unive…

> There is a very good reason: a humanitarian one Well, if we're going all humanitarian, the humanitarian thing to do would be to stop bombing these countries in the first place.

I agree that another humanitarian thing to do would be to stop bombing/droning other countries.

But you are presenting it as if you only get to do one humanitarian thing. That is incorrect. You can do both.

If you are trying to argue that a previous president's mistakes are a justification for this president's mistakes, I disagree.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#183

While I agree with most everything Jeff says and it's really well written, I'm always a bit irked when I see the the president of the US being called "Leader of the Free World". Especially when it's stated in those terms: "We lead the free world. And we do it by taking the higher moral ground, doing what is right before doing what is expedient." I'm not sure the US can still qualify as leading the free world under th…

The "free world" is pretty meaningless since the Cold War ended. It never really meant "free" anyway -- Pinochet's and Franco's regimes were as much a part of it as Western democracies. What it really meant was the "anti-Soviet world".

That's nonsense. Spain under Franco wasn't considered part of the "free world". To a first approximation, it referred to countries in NATO, plus a few allied countries like Sweden and Japan.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#184
post #73

> As of 2017, the United States, through a sequence of highly improbable events, managed to elect an extremely controversial president. I think it a mistake to see this as a random fluke and chuck it up to chance. It seems like chance to those who were asleep or were watching news from their own bubble. Trump is a symptom of something that was already there probably decades in the making. If we ignore the conditions…

> Trump is a symptom of something that was already there probably decades in the making

And the something is: Democratic entitlement. Larger population is feeling the world owe them happy life, free healthcare and the all the things that successful have "took" from them.

And ofcourse its not sustainable. Democracy is done. I give it at most two more Trumps.

PS: I preassume its ok to talk politics in political threads.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#185
post #42

One thing that might be missing from this action plan is "get into local action". If you vote Democrat, there were many uncontested republican seats that voted Clinton. The Democratic party has had its foundation fall out, and its mostly because the local-level stuff has fallen completely by the wayside. Hell, you can even just run for office in 2018. All the DNC chair candidates agree that there are not enough peopl…

As a UK citizen I wouldn't run for elected office here given the level of abuse and "alt-truth" levelled at politicians. I certainly wouldn't run for elected office in the US. If you've ever done anything that could be twisted to cast you in a bad light, even if you haven't, you - and your family - will be put through the wringer.

I keep seeing parallels with the decades leading up to the end of the Roman Republic, except all we have are Caesars and Pompeys with no Cicero's thrown into the mix.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#186
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- It was a ban of people from 7 muslim-dominated countries - It excepts non-Muslims (religious test) - It includes dual-citizens, and permanent residents. Even when you become the citizen of another country, you're still tainted according to the EO. Even when you've been vetted for the green card, you're still tainted. - Guiliani is on the record that Trump said "I want a Muslim ban" and this was drafted to be the "m…

> Guiliani gave what he thought to be a muslim ban, It's pretty poor as an effort if that's what it was meant to be. At least 70% of the World's Muslim population aren't banned. http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/muslims/pf_15-04-02_proje... I'm not even a USian but I find myself posting on these threads because otherwise-rational people are posting irrational, inaccurate statements. We wouldn't accept people saying…

The BBC had an article pointing out that Trump has business interests in Egypt, Saudi, and Pakistan, and no business interests in any of the banned countries.

Also, when people talk about 'muslims' in these Anglo countries of ours, they're generally not imagining Indonesians or Malays. In the US it's middle-eastern muslims. In the UK, you can add south asians to that mix. Even here in Australia, 'muslim' doesn't evoke imagery of Indonesians, even though we're right next-door to them and have decent trade links. And before Boko Haram made the news, the general public had no idea that muslims lived in sub-saharan Africa, except maybe around the horn near the Arabian peninsula.

In short, it's an "anglo stereotype of muslims" ban, minus countries with good business links.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#187
post #6

Wonderfully written, giving my thoughts a word. For me and my wife, the USA, despite all their shortcomings, are a country we really want to live in. It stands for many good things. It is not a country you want to mess with, and we are fine with that. We embrace American culture, we love American companies, we so far respected American politicians. For stuff we as individuals are interested in (which might not be wha…

As an American, I have a lot of respect for Iran. It's a beautiful country with great people. But when I turn on the news and I see "Death to America" being chanted or Iranians trample or burn the American flag the rust is broken. Not to mention the 1983 Beirut Barracks Bombing which killed hundreds of Americans and was committed by a group directly funded by the Iranian gov't. The situation feels very strange. Empty.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#188
post #79
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he is an outsider to the established system He's a billionaire who inherited around $750 million. He didn't pay his taxes. His chief of staff was chairman of the Republican party. His cabinet have a combined net worth of $6 billion. If anyone represents the powers-that-be, he does. If anyone has a glib marketing campaign, it's the Trump presidency in claiming to be 'outsiders'. And if you think the political system…

>He's a billionaire who inherited around $750 million He didn't inherit it with a bunch of strings attached from lobbyists. The Clintons have been pulling money into their foundation leveraging political connections built up over decades. People don't care that he's rich with daddy's money, they care that it's not "decades of political speeches and political fundraising money". >He didn't pay his taxes He would be a…

Ah! A breath of fresh air on HN.

>He would be a moron if he didn't pay the legally required amount

Precisely. Why would anyone pay more taxes than they're legally required to? He'd be in jail otherwise. You see, people are caught up in complexity instead of asking simple questions such as these. It is however so blatantly obvious that folks attacking Trump on such issues don't have anything concrete to discredit President Trump.

>>He's a billionaire who inherited around $750 million Again, WRONG! So blatantly obvious this is a lie. He did not inherit that much and even if he did, why is that a problem for anyone? Trump's voters weren't voting for his flaws (which were largely exaggerated by the dishonest media), they were voting for him because he was the only one who seemed to understand just how dire things have become, not just in America but globally. The left has largely been all about status quo and the vilification of producers. What has emerged now is that the left cannot be placated any longer. Time for radical action has come. Immorality, indolence, abortions, illegal immigration, egalitarianism, fundamentalism/Islamic radicalization and social welfare have no place in 21st century civilization.

It is time for normalcy to resume and voters all over the world from France To Italy To America have realized that only the right can provide this normalcy. All the socialist parties in the world are losing and this is a clear indication that the pendulum has swung for the better.

EDIT: Here's a list of world leaders likely to emulate the brilliant things Trump is doing when they come into power: Norbert Hofer - Austria, Marine Le Pen - France, Frauke Petry - Germany (with a very impressive movement called Alternative For Germany which has taken a cue from Brexit with their anti-EU mantra), Jimmie Akesson - Sweden, Andrej Babis - Czech, Beppe Grillo - Italy, Geert Wilders - Netherlanders, Nigel Farage - United Kingdom

WHY AM I BEING FLAGGED? I SAID NOTHING WRONG!!!!

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#189
post #5

You know what a lot of people consider worse than Donald Trump? The status quo. That's what I feel is missing in all this indignation - where were you before? The political system has been deeply broken for decades, with the same unjust policies being pursued regardless of which public face was on it - imperialist militaristic foreign policies abroad, economic inequality at home. All sold to the public with glib mark…

The status quo, such as it was, in 2016, was worse than... what?

I'm just not seeing how my life, or my neighbors lives, are improved by anything that's come so far. Or that is on the promised list of things to come.

It is actually already worse for some of us than it was 11 days ago.

Re: I'm Loyal to Nothing Except the Dream

#190
post #73

> As of 2017, the United States, through a sequence of highly improbable events, managed to elect an extremely controversial president. I think it a mistake to see this as a random fluke and chuck it up to chance. It seems like chance to those who were asleep or were watching news from their own bubble. Trump is a symptom of something that was already there probably decades in the making. If we ignore the conditions…

I think I'm taking crazy pills but...I distinctly remember watching TV back home in India in 2003 and seeing how everyone was cheering when American troops invaded Baghdad.

I don't know what's the right thing to do here honestly. You can spend 10 more years trying to "fix" Iraq, or you can just pull out, say "go to hell" and try to fix your home.

This situation should have never happened in the first place

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