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Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

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Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

#181
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to this, here's a really interesting story of someone who thought that his landlord was stalking him, but really he slowly become poisoned by a carbon monoxide leak. https://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/comments/34novp/user_thinks_...

He was leaving himself notes which he later didn't recognize, he thought someone was in the apartment! It was suggestions on reddit tnat made him realize it was CO poisoning.

Already knew that story, still crazy.

Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

#182

Makers are often exposed to many toxic compounds, from toxins in salvaged electronics to PCB etching compounds to lead solder and solder fumes. Unfortunately, they rarely have much if any safety training or awareness of the dangers they are exposing themselves to.

Ever done an undergraduate organic chemistry lab? You're exposed to far worse, I assure you.

Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

#183
post #42
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also say: > Lasers normally require some ventilation via a small tube out a nearby window. Our optional Air Filter that sits under Glowforge and ventilates using HEPA filters and charcoal, meaning no outside ventilation is required. Best to my knowledge HEPA and charcoal don't help against CO. So running one with the filter in an unventilated space might still be hazardous.

"To qualify as HEPA by US government standards, an air filter must remove (from the air that passes through) 99.97% of particles that have a size of 0.3 µm." Carbon monoxide is a few orders of magnitude too small to be caught by a HEPA filter, in fact a filter that could filter CO would filter oxygen and nitrogen as well. Such a filter would just be a pump. There, however, exists a patent for a filter for CO, it work…

Needing to eliminate CO is an old, well-solved problem. Even the cheapest catalytic converter would do so.

(It's not quite as simple as just putting one in-line with the waste gas flow- the catalyst would also need to be externally heated.)

Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

#184

CO poisoning is cumulative. It takes a long time for CO to get unstuck from hemoglobin. (About 2 weeks, IIRC.) It could have snuck up on them slowly, then one evening with the cats "napping" they felt particularly tired and thought to themselves, "We must be in hibernation mode from the chilly weather," then they went to sleep then never woke up. CO is odorless. You might get a headache, or you might only feel tired.…

If it was a progressive build up I really doubt the cats would have died the same day as the two humans. It feels like a sudden occurrence. And like the top comment said: even the CO poisoning is not confirmed yet.

That smells of an easy sensationalist headline there.

Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

#185
We've had so many fire false alarms but finally a real one happened. It was raining hard and maintenance closed the top vent to deter water intake. The unit is a 4 story multi-unit dwelling and luckily someone had a cheap $49 dollar CO detector. The fire came sans alarm and everyone had to evacuate. We were thinking ah man not this again. Someone had some burnt cooking that day. We could only return to our homes until all clear CO detection from the inspectors. My family opted in for the pulse oximetry that the nice fire folk were providing. Needless to say many, including myself, bought CO detectors that week.

Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

#186
post #51

Makers are often exposed to many toxic compounds, from toxins in salvaged electronics to PCB etching compounds to lead solder and solder fumes. Unfortunately, they rarely have much if any safety training or awareness of the dangers they are exposing themselves to.

As a new hobbyist in the Maker community, are there any resources you'd recommend that covers basic safety that is aimed at Makers? edit: typo

Okay, I have to respond because there is a lot of misinformation flying around.

MSDS's are good, but you'll go nuts trying to accommodate all of them.

1) Safety glasses. Safety glasses. SAFETY GLASSES. I can't mention this enough. Most injuries can be adjusted to accommodate--losing your eyes isn't like that. And, if you're using one of the more powerful lasers, get the specialty glasses for that.

2) Soldering doesn't really vaporize lead. There are other nasty things in the flux and board (Chlorine radicals are particularly bad). Keep your area ventilated and try not to inhale stuff. Fume hoods are excellent, but nobody I know who does this ever used one. An open window or open garage door generally is good enough for soldering.

3) Use leaded solder. Yes, I said it. Lead-free solder sucks to work with by hand. Lead-free solder takes a lot more heat and vaporizes more garbage than leaded solder, not less. One of the best ways to desolder lead-free solder is actually to add leaded solder and then desolder the result since it now melts at a lower temperature.

4) Too many people store their solder paste in the same fridge with food. That's a problem. Solder balls get everywhere very easily.

5) Arc welding is nasty. Old school shielded metal arc welding (stick welding) vaporizes all manner of nasty stuff. Use MIG or TIG instead--they still vaporize stuff but way less. They're better welds anyway. Also be careful about welding things like galvanized steel.

6) Hearing protection. You need it more than you think you do. I have hearing loss from years in server rooms in the 1990's.

7) Respect even the small machines. A small milling machine or lathe can't take off your hand as quickly as a radial saw, but it can still maim you quite badly.

8) Respect anything with a cutting edge even if not powered. Sure, an unpowered cutting edge probably won't kill or permanently maim you, but that doesn't mean you can get careless. I see people change milling bits without wrapping the bit in cloth while they hold it all the time. Generally, those same people wind up with scars across the palm of their hand. I suspect the lowly utility knife causes more injuries than any other tool.

9) Powders are really damn dangerous. In addition to being highly flammable and explosive, they get in your lungs and don't come out easily. Sawdust from real wood is bad--sawdust from particle board is worse. It has all manner of nasty shit in it.

10) Volatile organics are worse than you think. Acetone, kerosene, paint thinner, etc. do nasty things to you. If people can use it for "huffing", it probably is nasty to your brain. Ventilate these things much better than you would for everything else.

Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

#187

I lit a candle last night with a closed window and door. Then it hit me that there is no way there is no CO in this room. Immediately opened my window. After hearing this story, I am never sleeping with my window closed.

Are you trolling a dead couple? A candle's CO is what you are worried about? Sigh.

Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

#188
post #90

It's a tangent — and I'll take the downvotes if people want to ding me for asking, given the context — but since you're here: can you please help me understand why your product is useless without the cloud? I'd have gleefully bought one, except for that. And with that, I'm not touching it.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13509087 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Carbon monoxide poisoning from 3D laser printer may have killed Berkeley couple

#190
post #125
post #44

"3D laser printer" probably means a Glowforge. Nobody else calls them that. Their documentation says "Lasers normally require some ventilation via a small tube out a nearby window. Our optional Air Filter that sits under Glowforge and ventilates using HEPA filters and charcoal, meaning no outside ventilation is required." That won't do much if you cut something that emits carbon monoxide when heated. That includes so…

The air filter costs an additional $750 extra when you buy the $3000 Glowforge, I could see students skimping on that and no realizing the implications. https://glowforge.com/order That said I watched the video for this product and I'm really looking forward to when these are widespread. It's a very exciting industry. I'd definitely buy one of these when it gets to around $1k.

Selling the product without that filter could be considered immoral.
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