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A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

visa.lafrenchtech.com

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Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#181

Post by true_religion »

cygnus wrote: post #169
manuelbieh wrote: post #109

If you take a look at the french economy, their political system, their tax rates and social security system you don't actually want to work and/or live there as a startup founder, so no need for a visa. Nice try, France. // edit: ah, not to forget about their unwillingness to treat you as human being when not speaking their language.

I'm French and I agree with this. I left a long time ago. Add: - the absurd administration burden to do anything - the absurd prices of anything in Paris - the lack of consideration for anything that is not in Paris - the denial of your rights because there might be some terrorists No way, no reviens Leon.

What if I don't want to live in Paris? After all, there are other cities, yes?

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#182

Post by realusername »

woodhull wrote: post #154
bsaul wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of speech issues in France ?? I'd say a good reason not to come here is bureaucracy and taxes, but not issues with freedom of speech... Do you have some facts you'd like to share ?

France tries to regulate what people wear while sitting on the beach. It seems downright opposed to multiculturalism and diversity. Freedom of expression isn't just the right to write blog posts.

it's generally opposed to multiculturalism because the dominant mentality in France is integrationism, not multiculturalism, it's the opposite approach to the US/UK.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#183

Post by jchampem »

oaron wrote: post #170
bankim wrote: post #82

What are salaries like for mid-senior level software engineers working in tech companies in Paris? What are the tax rates i.e pay after taxes?

I am using https://salaryaftertax.com/fr to compute the net salary, but I am not sure whether it offers the complete picture. Could anyone familiar with the taxation in France offer more details?

This seems to be accurately calculating the income taxes, but that's not taking into account the corporate taxes.

If a French employer tells you they'll pay you 100k€ annually (just for the sake of the example), you can expect to receive 75k€. (25%, mostly for your retirement plan, social security and unemployment insurance. Mandatory)

Then, if you input those 75k in this tool, it will tell you what you can expect to pay as income taxes. In the case of 75k, 17 218€.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#184

Post by GrumpyBen »

dest wrote: post #116
bsaul wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of speech issues in France ?? I'd say a good reason not to come here is bureaucracy and taxes, but not issues with freedom of speech... Do you have some facts you'd like to share ?

Some opinions are not only socially incorrect, they can get you to jail. Examples of forbidden topics: homosexuals, non-white people, jews, saying that you don't need health insurance… Of course not endorsing anything about those topics, just saying that forbiding any debate on those topics may not be a long-term solution to solve those societal questions. We get the popular far-right party FN for some reason I think…

You're linking a source that you don't understand. "Toute personne qui refuse délibérément de s’affilier ou qui demande à ne plus être affiliée à un régime de sécurité sociale"

This has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

And since when is it illegal to talk about homosexuals, non-white people or jews ?

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#185

Post by adventured »

mtw wrote: post #89
hartator wrote: post #51

Don't go there. The limit of freedom of speech is real and can block you. Even when you run a startup that has nothing to do with local politics or anything controversial. Plus, we are still in "state of emergency", that gives the state more rights than the patriot act. Go to the US, Canada or New Zealand.

In France, freedom of speech is limited for terrorism, hate speech, hating religions e.g. For example, encouraging racism, lauding Hitler or ISIS, or extreme versions of islam or christianism which limit women's rights etc. The only difference with US or Canada is that religion extremism is more "tolerated" in those countries, but that is NOT an issue for startups. Unless you're doing a religion startup??!? The real…

That is clearly not the only difference.

There is a vast amount of what would be considered incendiary or illegal discussion in France, that occurs on Reddit, Twitter, Facebook, Tumblr, and dozens of other US platforms.

Those types of services, Google included, are gateways & amplifiers that enable a much larger ecosystem for tech start-ups. Censorship drives or keeps them away, which is one of the reasons why the US will perpetually dominate such in the West.

The latest anti free speech movement taking over Europe, is the "fake news" authoritarianism. Having bureaucrats decide what is legally to be considered news; aka an excuse for increasing government censorship. Major European nations are moving aggressively to strictly limit such. Should Breitbart be covered by freedom of speech? I think it's obvious that they should. In Germany or France it would not be, they'd immediately seek to destroy them.

Facebook is a $369 billion tech behemoth that could never exist anywhere but the US. It's probably worth more than every public technology company in all of the EU combined.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#186

Post by randomname2 »

udkl wrote: post #151
randomname2 wrote: post #53

The UK has a similar visa for senior engineers: http://www.techcityuk.com/tech-nation-visa/ "This specific visa can be used for talent coming from anywhere in the world. As an example, we are aware of a recent senior hire from the US that got his visa returned to him in his passport exactly 28 days from submission. This specific visa puts an individual on track to Indefinite Leave to Remain and Citizenship with no ne…

The visa has a low annual quota of just 200.

For now 76% of applications have been endorsed though. Example writeup of someone's experience applying for this: https://ksred.me/post/tier-1-exceptional-talent-tech-city-uk...

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#187

Post by jjawssd »

jchampem wrote: post #128
bankim wrote: post #82

What are salaries like for mid-senior level software engineers working in tech companies in Paris? What are the tax rates i.e pay after taxes?

You can expect something from 50k to 70k€ (gross salary) dependending on the company and your experience. Remove 25% of that to have an idea of your net salary. (Those 25% are mostly for your retirement plan, social security and unemployment insurance. All of those are mandatory) Expect to pay between 1 and 2 months net salary in yearly incomes taxes.

That sounds like double or triple the amount of tax Americans in a similar role have to pay at home

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#188

Post by jjawssd »

javajosh wrote: post #160
esquevin wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll definitely earn way less, but you'll be entitled to a lot of vacations (5~7 weeks of paid vacations). The Americans I know that went to work to France don't want to go back

So do the Americans like it in France and want to stay there? The wording of your comment makes it unclear.

The Americans that went to France earn less money but want to stay there because they have more vacation time and presumably better quality of life

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#189

Post by FabHK »

fvdessen wrote: post #134
bsaul wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of speech issues in France ?? I'd say a good reason not to come here is bureaucracy and taxes, but not issues with freedom of speech... Do you have some facts you'd like to share ?

If I remember correctly, You are more or less responsible for whatever appears on your website. If your users use your service for forbidden speech, then you are liable.

In Germany, you might be responsible for things you link to under certain circumstances. But I don't think that's really a big deal for startups in Germany.

To assess this properly, it would be interesting to know what startups in different countries pay to lawyers.

Re: A Visa for founders, engineers and investors willing to join France

#190

Post by scrollaway »

dest wrote: post #159
scrollaway wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You either have no idea what you're talking about or you're lying on purpose. Or both. Nobody has been jailed for "saying they don't need health insurance". Our freedom of speech, like in the rest of europe, is slightly more restrictive than in the US (as in: there is a concept of restricted hate speech) but the fact that the FN even exists should go a long way to showcase that you don't get jailed for stuff like tha…

I have updated my original post to provide some sources. It gets slightly off topic and noticeably too political for HN, so maybe we should stop debating about this here.

I don't think this is off-topic. But you are completely off the mark.

Health insurance: What you linked is an amendment that adds sanctions to illegally refusing social security coverage. Whether you think that's OK or not is irrelevant - it's not a speech issue.

"saying you should not do abortion": You are grossly misrepresenting what that is. Abortion is considered an integral right for french women. What your link says is that it's illegal to try to prevent them.

> Cet article punit d'un emprisonnement de deux ans et/ou d'une amende de 30 000 francs le fait d'empêcher ou de tenter d'empêcher une interruption volontaire de grossesse ou les actes préalables : soit en pertubant l'accès aux établissements d'hospitalisation publics ou privés satisfaisant aux dispositions de l'article L. 176 du code de la santé publique ; soit en exerçant des menaces ou tout acte d'intimidation à l'encontre des personnels médicaux et non médicaux travaillant dans ces établissements ou des femmes venues y subir une interruption volontaire de grossesse.

To translate: Preventing, or attempting to prevent a voluntary abortion is punished by two years in prison and/or a 30000 francs fine. "Either by preventing access to hospitals or threatening/intimidating working personnel or patients."

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