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The Risk of Discovery

paulgraham.com

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Re: The Risk of Discovery

#181

Post by pc2g4d »

olavk wrote: post #163
nocman wrote: post #143

"Physics seems to us a promising thing to work on, and alchemy and theology obvious wastes of time." I'm not sure which "us" pg is referring to, but the essay gives me the impression that he meant something like "most people" (I could be reading him wrong, but that was my impression). Alchemy is obviously a waste of time -- I won't dispute that, and I suspect that "most people" would agree with that assertion. Being…

I'm just guessing here, but I suspect PG doesn't care what "most people" think about theology. He is probably writing from the perspective from an educated person who see the enormous influence of Newtonian physics, and see absolutely no benefit from his theological thinking. Seriously, who today even knows what Newtons theological theories were?

I don't think it matters what his particular theology was. What matters is that theology matters. It affects how people experience and interpret religion, which has a vast impact on the world. So the article's utter dismissal of theology as a waste of time seems misguided to me.

Alchemy as well was not so ridiculous as people seem to think. Modern hatred for alchemy seems more like a way of patting ourselves on the back and saying "We're so smart! Good thing we don't believe in that nonsense like those benighted fools hundreds of years ago." But in reality alchemy was a pre-scientific attempt at understanding the world which, if I understand correctly, merged more or less directly into what we no consider science.

It seems to me that the two things PG dismissed completely in his article are in fact the foundations upon which our modern world is largely built. There's more to the world than physics...even if physics is, in a sense, all there is.

Re: The Risk of Discovery

#182

Post by woodandsteel »

jat850 wrote: post #122
tbabb wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does theology not involve a belief in the supernatural?

Theology is the study of religion or things supernatural, not necessarily tied to a practice in any belief.

No, that is religious studies. Theologians all believe in god or other supernatural entities.

Re: The Risk of Discovery

#183

Post by tbabb »

all_usernames wrote: post #141
tbabb wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you study the properties of something you don't believe exists? Edit: People are downvoting this, but I genuinely want to know how "theology is the study of supernatural things" and "theology does not rely on belief in the supernatural" are not in complete contradiction.

Religious faith from certain perspectives is something like: choosing to believe despite being unable to comprehend with your rational mind. That's the basic core of the inquiry, you start from there and see what happens.

"Choosing to believe" in the supernatural is the opposite of "theology does not require belief" in the supernatural.

Re: The Risk of Discovery

#184

Post by sirclueless »

gizmo wrote: post #158
abakker wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a good discussion related to this yesterday on Dr. Michael Burry. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13374573 Interesting discussions about reasonable risks, even when we know in hindsight that the outcomes were good.

Interesting discussion, although I disagree with the conclusion. I don't think betting the house on a single event is "insane". Businesses make these all-in bets all the time and we're fine with it. Every Hollywood blockbuster is also a billion dollar all-in bet, but nobody bats an eye at that either. Individuals bet a huge percentage of their net worth when they buy a house. Yet when a person invests a large amount…

It's not necessarily as arbitrary as you're making it out. For businesses, the cost of failure is low and the potential upside is enormous. As a result, risk-seeking behavior makes sense, and people generally respect that. For humans, the cost of failure is very high, and the upside is only the productivity of one 2 meter bag of flesh with a brain inside. Taking existential risks as a human is foolish for reasons that do not apply to businesses.

Re: The Risk of Discovery

#185

Post by jat850 »

woodandsteel wrote: post #182
jat850 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theology is the study of religion or things supernatural, not necessarily tied to a practice in any belief.

No, that is religious studies. Theologians all believe in god or other supernatural entities.

There's debate on the terminology, so I'll credit your first point. But there are atheists who also study theology. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hector_Avalos is one such example.

Re: The Risk of Discovery

#186

Post by kafkaesq »

pc2g4d wrote: post #177
gizmo wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Peter Thiel isn't a regular guy with an imaginative twitter stream. He's an influential and highly connected billionaire. This has nothing to do with free speech.

Billionaires don't have rights to free speech?

Really, whatever you think about Thiel -- the decision of whether to maintain a high-profile business relationship with someone -- or chose not to, for whatever reason -- has nothing -- whatsoever -- do with "free speech" rights, in the usual sense.

Re: The Risk of Discovery

#187

Post by olavk »

pc2g4d wrote: post #181
olavk wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just guessing here, but I suspect PG doesn't care what "most people" think about theology. He is probably writing from the perspective from an educated person who see the enormous influence of Newtonian physics, and see absolutely no benefit from his theological thinking. Seriously, who today even knows what Newtons theological theories were?

I don't think it matters what his particular theology was. What matters is that theology matters. It affects how people experience and interpret religion, which has a vast impact on the world. So the article's utter dismissal of theology as a waste of time seems misguided to me. Alchemy as well was not so ridiculous as people seem to think. Modern hatred for alchemy seems more like a way of patting ourselves on the b…

Newton was trying to predict the end of the world by studying the Bible. The people who wrote the Bible did not actually have any privileged information about the end of the world. Therefore his endeavor was a waste of time.

As far as I know Newtons theology had absolutely no impact on anybody except himself.

Re: The Risk of Discovery

#188

Post by kafkaesq »

gizmo wrote: post #88

For people who wonder why YC and pg are okay with some of Peter Thiel's more extreme behavior, this is why. It's pretty interesting that pg describes the possible outcomes of contrarian ideas as either positive for society or merely a waste of time. Even though the pursuit of risky and contrarian ideas can also be hugely harmful for society.

For people who wonder why YC and pg are okay with some of Peter Thiel's more extreme behavior, this is why.

For his "weird" behavior, yeah, probably.

For some of his "other" behavior -- his support for Trump, generally; and his (very recent, and very disturbing) attemps to soft-peddle, and normalize sexual violence -- more likely it's because they lack awareness of some basic political history.

Re: The Risk of Discovery

#189

Post by prutschman »

maverick_iceman wrote: post #130
gizmo wrote: post #88

For people who wonder why YC and pg are okay with some of Peter Thiel's more extreme behavior, this is why. It's pretty interesting that pg describes the possible outcomes of contrarian ideas as either positive for society or merely a waste of time. Even though the pursuit of risky and contrarian ideas can also be hugely harmful for society.

Maybe they just believe in Thiel's free speech rights.

I have free speech rights too, but YC is under no more obligation to keep him around than it is to keep me around.
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