Donald Trump Is Elected President • Hacker News Board

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#181

Post by SketchySeaBeast » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 4:28 PM UTC

DamnYuppie wrote: post #153

lettergram wrote: post #128

For better or worse, Trump's probably the next president... The weird part about this election, is the electoral college could still pull a fast one on us and elect someone else. There are quite a few of electors and governors who REALLY hate Trump. If anyone's curious, the elector college votes in December[1]. Edit : I don't think this will happen, but in a world where Trump won, anything is possible. [1] https://ww…

I am not saying this out of anger or angst. If that was done the civility of the disenfranchised electorate, which showed up in force this election, would erode and devolve into violence at a pace that would astound those on the left.

You think anything can astound the left after last night?

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#182

Post by maxsilver » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 4:29 PM UTC

binaryorganic wrote: post #69

moultano wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dramatically increase the amount of housing in urban areas so more people can move there and away from the places without any industry left.

Unless you're in a flourishing coastal city (there are exceptions, sure), many cities in this country have huge housing surpluses.

I'm not so sure. I'm in the Midwest, and housing shortages and gentrification are extremely prevalent problems here too, in almost every city with employers. It's a major problem even for some absolutely tiny towns - http://www.freep.com/story/money/real-estate/2015/12/21/hous...

Sure, the scale is way smaller than coastal cities. But if you adjust the prices to match the incomes, the unaffordability problem is roughly identical in terms of pain. A Michigan $300k urban condo is basically as unaffordable as a Seattle $600k condo, once you notice that Michigan incomes are roughly 50% lower than Seattle, on average.

Sprawl is cheap, that's absolutely true. But it's also sprawl -- with all the problems that entails. The only cities I know of with "huge housing surpluses", are cities that have majorly failed in some way (like Flint).

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#183

Post by dang » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 4:29 PM UTC

st3v3r wrote: post #156

The reason people are demonizing Trump supporters is because they ran on a ticket of undoing just about all of the progress that many had fought hard for over the past eight years. LGBTQ rights are likely out the window, as is any hope at gender equality or income equality. So forgive me if I have no sympathy whatsoever for those that are being "demonized" on social media, as they likely aren't going to have to face…

This is the sort of sharp step down in civility that we need to avoid when replying here. I'm sure you can express your views without doing that, so please don't do that.

We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12911283 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#184

Post by mch82 » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 4:29 PM UTC

ynniv wrote: post #59

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #17

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? I'm less worried about the accusations of racism, etc. because it appears to me a majority are voting because their livelihoods have been lost and, despite economics saying globalization will bring new jobs, they aren't showing up in the critical areas where they are needed. So, what policies can be…

Historically speaking, war is very effective at reducing unemployment. I'm not advocating it, but others will soon.

And in increasing national debts.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#185

Post by jdc0589 » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 4:29 PM UTC

user837387 wrote: post #55

He got elected on all these promises. 1- Build the wall and make Mexico pay for it 2- Deportation Force on day one 3- Repeal obamacare 4- Renegotiate NAFTA 5- Bring back coal 6- Reduce taxes for the rich 7- Ban muslims 8- Prosecuting Hillary Clinton 9- Bring back American companies to the USA 10- Etc. The Senate and the House are Republicans and the Supreme court will lean republican after his appointment. What do yo…

1 - no way to do this that isn't suicide for foreign relations.

2 - there won't be a deportation "force". undocumented/illegal immigrants aren't going to get auto-citizenship, and there may be additional requirements put on employers to verify citizenship.

3 - possible

4 - I'm not convinced Trump actually knows what countries and regions are affected by NAFTA. unlikely.

5 - sweet jesus I hope not.

6 - likely

7 - not possible. if he tries it's auto impeachment (or a vote for it anyway)

8 - also potential auto-impeachment. abuse of powers.

9 - I would like to see this happen, but the only way it could work is MASSIVE tax breaks to offset more expensive labor. It won't happen in 4 years, but some groundwork might be laid.

10 - "goes on camera and says something horribly offensive and xenophobic to leaders/citizens of a foreign country that seriously damages us": 10/10 will happen.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#186

Post by micaksica » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 4:29 PM UTC

moultano wrote: post #38

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #17

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? I'm less worried about the accusations of racism, etc. because it appears to me a majority are voting because their livelihoods have been lost and, despite economics saying globalization will bring new jobs, they aren't showing up in the critical areas where they are needed. So, what policies can be…

Dramatically increase the amount of housing in urban areas so more people can move there and away from the places without any industry left.

This will not help. You are supposing that the people who feel disenfranchised in the Rust Belt want to move to NYC where they can get cheap housing and work in the city. They don't want the China model of having a Foxconn that hires rural workers to work in the big city.

What these people want isn't fully rational; it's highly emotional. They want their 1950s-style old way of life back. They want their jobs in their towns that they grew up in, that they have lived in or raised families in, where they have their church and their community. They want to live in their IL farm town and work at the local union plant and make a living to pay for pensions and healthcare. It is not realistic in a globalized economy and will be less so in a fully domesticated one, but the math is not what matters here.

Urban areas in these places already have plenty of housing that nobody is in. See Detroit for example.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#187

Post by ap22213 » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 4:29 PM UTC

tmorgan175 wrote: post #150

ap22213 wrote: post #87

I'll probably stop working for a while. I really don't want to support these creepy people in small town and rural america. They should no longer get my tax money to prop up their almost non-existent economies, and they certainly shouldn't enjoy a 1st world lifestyle on my back. No more 60-hour weeks for me. I'm retiring. I hope other follow. Maybe they'll finally get off their couch, turn off breitbart, and actually…

This is the kind of elitist, holier-than-thou, attitude that created a silent majority in the first place. There's probably a middle ground here that you're alienating by using such crude stereotypes.

I'm open to understanding the people in the middle ground. Who are they, what do they want, and what do they stand for?

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#188

Post by SolaceQuantum » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 4:29 PM UTC

belorn wrote: post #120

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #17

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? I'm less worried about the accusations of racism, etc. because it appears to me a majority are voting because their livelihoods have been lost and, despite economics saying globalization will bring new jobs, they aren't showing up in the critical areas where they are needed. So, what policies can be…

I can think of several things, from cultural long term changes, rhetoric and acknowledge of human struggle, to smaller changes on the local level. We could start by not calling them privileged, demeaning them in their struggle. Acknowledging peoples struggle in life is often the first step in helping a demographic, be that women, black, white, immigrant, American born, or what have you. As cultural changes, one would…

I don't know about this one. I'm able-bodied and have 0 problems with being called privileged for being able bodied. I can hear well, I can see fine, I don't need any machines or devices to help me move around. In this respect I'm very privileged. I don't feel like I'm being demeaned by acknowledging this. It is actually to me acknowledging that other people struggle in ways that I do not.

Similarly, I struggle to see why accusations of white privilege are terrible. I don't believe that because someone is white they can't suffer. I believe the statement is because someone is white they don't have to go through or experience certain things.

Like I don't have to experience the struggle of taking public transport as a person in a wheelchair, because I don't need a wheelchair, does not mean I don't have my own problems. I just don't have the specific problems of someone who has a mobility impairment.

I don't see how acknowledging this is demeaning. It's just looking at reality. White people can struggle, just not with race. Able bodied people can struggle, just not with being disabled. Is that demeaning to white or able bodied people to recognize this? I genuinely don't know.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#189

Post by _audakel » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 4:29 PM UTC

micahbright wrote: post #85

dopamean wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the crux of why Trump's pandering to them was total bullshit. He can't do anything to help them because the jobs that left aren't coming back. In four years they will be in the same position they are now but they wont have a black man or a Democrat to blame for it and so they wont be quite as bitter about it.

It didn't help that while he was "bullshitting", Hillary was calling them deplorable. Empathy for the win.

Reminds me of romneys infomous 47% remark. Seems like there is a geuine disconnect btwn current pollitical class and the "silent majority"

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#190

Post by matthewmacleod » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 4:29 PM UTC

koolba wrote: post #70

As someone who's actively vocalized his support for Trump in the past, both here[1] and in my meat space life, I'm ecstatic with the results of this election. Not just the POTUS, but the trifecta of the house and senate as well. That's as loud of a mandate as can be expected from a strongly divided country. On top of all that, with the SCOTUS picks that are expected in the next few years, this election is going to be…

Now let's move forward on the direction that's been chosen

I guess one of the bigger problems is that it's utterly unclear what direction has been chosen.

I think it's fair to say—do correct me if you think I'm wrong—that most of the policies that were advocated by Trump prior to the election will not be put into practice. There are a few reasons for that – many of them are practically unworkable, or contradictory, or will be objectively harmful. It seems that the actual policies that will take effect will be markedly different from those of the campaign.

This is similar to Brexit in the UK, which was a campaign fought in a similar way – quite a few half-truths with no clear idea of what policy was being voted for.

To me, this seems like a dangerous situation. Practically speaking, it is unlikely that Trump with 'make America great again' by solving all of the problems that his supporters face – not because he's a liar, but because that's an astonishingly difficult task to achieve. What happens in a couple of years when relatively limited progress has been made? Trump has no political barriers within the US, so who will be blamed for his inability to deliver on his promises? I worry that such a situation is a breeding ground for nationalism of the worst kind.