181–190 of 196 posts
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Hiring itself and losses from going without are very expensive, I find it weird that any company wouldn't rather retain. I wouldn't ever be surprised that hiring cost $10k all up.
Recruiters take up to 20% of first year salary or more plus the time to retrain, a 10k dev is a cheap one.
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Being in that situation is so satisfying. Boss: HR won't give me the money for your raise. Employee: I quit. I've been offered more money elsewhere. Boss: No wait actually I can get that extra money Employee: Too late, kthxbai
+1 Never take a counter offer. You'll get more pay but you're stuck in the same company run by the same narrow minds.
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I wonder, do the managers see it that way? Engineers are doing their job and often buy into the worth of the company, the importance of their work etc. And even if they don't they think most of their peers do. So when an engineer plays this card he tends to assume others will see it as ruthless. But do management really think this? Do they really drink the kool aide and think less of you? Or do they just see this as…
Ex-manager (now VP) here. I've never thought poorly of someone raising the topic of their value to the company or their current salary. Doesn't mean I've always agreed with their assessment, but there's no hard feelings on my side. By the time you go out and get another bona-fide offer that you're considering taking, I and our company have already lost the game if that's the first I hear about it. I'd much rather hea…
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I can assure you as a (reluctant) manager I definitely care. Its literally the only reason I'm management. I'm also constantly having discussions with the people who generally make these kind of broad decisions about how unrealistic their decision making processes are. I tend to start those conversations with some variant on "it doesn't matter what you say the raise limits are for a person, the market sets those thin…
> it doesn't matter what you say the raise limits are for a person, the market sets those things and the market right now says you're wrong This is very common. They often justify it with "In this company we're not paying as much, but we have greater freedom/cooler tech/ ". Well good for you. We have already established that we're a good fit, but I'm not working for 20% less than I can across the street.
Yes, the classic "just world hypothesis" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis If you "work harder", you will be compensated fairly. Of course, "work harder" is overrated now that work doesn't involve physical labor. "Work harder" has been replaced by "create more value". The expectation is after you create more value for the owners, you will be compensated fairly. If you believe that, go talk to engine…
I've found that most seniors have gained their place because they made sure nobody could become better than them. How seniors usually do this is by restricting training, keeping knowledge of things they designed to themselves, and so on.
Heck, where I'am working now, a senior has designed this billing system, and literally nobody knows how to use it and it always breaks, but he will not tell anybody how to fix it, despite me and dozens others shouting at him.
One word that ensures higher salaries...
Protectionism.
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Sure it's a weakness, but they (management) don't care. If the developer leaves, they'll hire another and in the mean time the remaining devs get to pick up the slack. It's actually a convenient excuse for the schedule slipping; they blame it on the developer who left because he "wasn't a team player", even though management knows the real reason is because they simply don't ... know ... how ... to ... manage.
Replace-ability is actually a solid negotiation tactic, but that's not the same as intransigence regarding budget. The characterization of management as incompetents backastabbers is as childish as the one that says employees are lazy bums who should be grateful of their salary.
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Being in that situation is so satisfying. Boss: HR won't give me the money for your raise. Employee: I quit. I've been offered more money elsewhere. Boss: No wait actually I can get that extra money Employee: Too late, kthxbai
+1 Never take a counter offer. You'll get more pay but you're stuck in the same company run by the same narrow minds.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Being in that situation is so satisfying. Boss: HR won't give me the money for your raise. Employee: I quit. I've been offered more money elsewhere. Boss: No wait actually I can get that extra money Employee: Too late, kthxbai
+1 Never take a counter offer. You'll get more pay but you're stuck in the same company run by the same narrow minds.
You've got 2 companies you can work at. You should go to the one you prefer to work with. Maybe that's the one you already are in, maybe not.
Do what's best for yourself.
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> 206% So it proves that it's possible to get decent people at 206% under the market :D
Yes, but it's more like getting a ticking time bomb. Eventually, they will find out the market rate.
So many variables at play :D
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Recruiters take up to 20% of first year salary or more plus the time to retrain, a 10k dev is a cheap one.
In Chicago, some recruiters have started asking for 30%. I've refused to work with these companies but rates are definitely going up.
I asked a recruiter that placed me and he said he's usually taking 20-35% :D