Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Most Germans don’t buy their homes, they rent

qz.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 413 posts

Re: Most Germans don’t buy their homes, they rent

#181

Post by enraged_camel »

sickbeard wrote: post #156
whack wrote: post #39

The Germans seem to be far ahead of the curve here. From a financial planning perspective, buying a home results in: 1) The vast majority of your assets becoming concentrated in a single plot of land, in a single neighborhood, in a single city 2) Your future mobility to pursue jobs in other cities, becoming significantly constrained If you want to invest your savings, then invest them in the stock/bond markets. If yo…

Excessive mobility has an adverse effect on families and children. It makes sense to rent if you are single, but it makes more sense to plant yourself somewhere when you are a family.

Why? I have friends who moved a lot during their childhood (due to parents' jobs/obligations, e.g. military), and they're some of the most well-adjusted and social people I know.

Having to rebuild one's social circle from scratch every few years can be a very valuable and beneficial skill for a child.

Re: Most Germans don’t buy their homes, they rent

#182

Post by Retric »

kodablah wrote: post #174
kgermino wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does anything on your list stem from owning vs renting? Presumably if you were renting - you would still garden and you or your landlord would still maintain the lawn - your landlord would still maintain the house - you would still be living in the community and therefore motivated to participate in it's government - I don't understand this one at all. Why would a second family suddenly move in if the house was r…

Your points miss both the financial incentive to make things better for your own asset and long term incentive since oftentimes renting makes one more nomadic. Point by point: - You might not garden w/ no equitable return on house value (or at least not build a large gardening setup), and landlords feel the same way in reverse (no benefit to them to do anything beyond the minimum once it's inhabited) - Maintain != im…

Increasing home ownership lowers economic growth. People tend to move jobs less often and have longer commutes both of which reduces economic efficiency. People also tend to rent places which more closely match their needs further reducing waste. AKA, renting and there is no need for a kids room until you have kids, but when buying you may need to plan for your needs in 5+ years out.

Further, people really do rent the same place for 30+ years when their job and family situation is stable, which incentives similar levels of improvement.

Re: Most Germans don’t buy their homes, they rent

#184

Post by nommm-nommm »

kodablah wrote: post #174
kgermino wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does anything on your list stem from owning vs renting? Presumably if you were renting - you would still garden and you or your landlord would still maintain the lawn - your landlord would still maintain the house - you would still be living in the community and therefore motivated to participate in it's government - I don't understand this one at all. Why would a second family suddenly move in if the house was r…

Your points miss both the financial incentive to make things better for your own asset and long term incentive since oftentimes renting makes one more nomadic. Point by point: - You might not garden w/ no equitable return on house value (or at least not build a large gardening setup), and landlords feel the same way in reverse (no benefit to them to do anything beyond the minimum once it's inhabited) - Maintain != im…

When I rented I gardened. I haven't the slightest clue why you believe someone wouldn't garden when they rent. In fact the place I rented I picked because I could garden.

Re: Most Germans don’t buy their homes, they rent

#185

Post by dasmoth »

cm2187 wrote: post #130
riprowan wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no reason to favor individuals investing into an unproductive investment (property) over productive investments (stocks and bonds). I beg to differ. I think that real estate, like farming, has critical societal benefits that are worthwhile to develop and maintain. Namely, it is very difficult to raise a family of four in a mutual fund. Investing in a home may is absolutely "productive." See, there are sign…

> Namely, it is very difficult to raise a family of four in a mutual fund. It is difficult to ski without skis. But most people don't buy skis, they rent them. Renting skis do not mean that no skis will be manufactured. There is a need for house, houses will be constructed, irrespective of whether people will over-bid on them or not. > A paid off home is a social safety net against homelessness Stocks and savings are…

> > A paid off home is a social safety net against homelessness > Stocks and savings are equally a safety net against loss of primary income.

Landlords and letting agencies can be kind-of funny beasts, they're not necessarily happy to have an unemployed guy as a tenant even if he owns a pile of shares.

Re: Most Germans don’t buy their homes, they rent

#187

Post by aianus »

Normal_gaussian wrote: post #176
aianus wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It gives you the liberty to move for a better job. That's enormous when you're early in your career and switching jobs results in huge pay increases. Even within the same city, it's really nice to move near your new job and not have a commute.

I don't see that this is a real problem for ownership. You can sell the house and buy another. Sure its more complex than simply giving notice and leaving but it isn't hard.

That costs a combined 6% of the property in brokers fees alone. That's like, $30k every time you move.

Re: Most Germans don’t buy their homes, they rent

#188

Post by to3m »

cm2187 wrote: post #97
randiantech wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So are you recommending to invest savings on stocks and bonds rather than a house? I mean, I wont argue / refute you reasoning, I just simply dont have the knowledge to do a proper analysis. Ill just say that my 78 years old parents, that not even finished high school, always told me to first buy a house, then think about the rest. Being an owner feels like the best decision Ive ever made. If something happens to me,…

You could have savings and investment you could use to cover a lower rent the rainy days. House prices are only high because everyone is over-bidding to buy them. And that's driving rents up. Now this is different to the question of whether you should individually follow the crowd in a country where everyone over-bids on property. If you don't, you still pay a high rent to repay the massive mortgage of the guy who bo…

Why is there room for rents to go up? Why aren't they in general already around the maximum the market will bear?

Re: Most Germans don’t buy their homes, they rent

#189

Post by Spooky23 »

Retric wrote: post #182
kodablah wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your points miss both the financial incentive to make things better for your own asset and long term incentive since oftentimes renting makes one more nomadic. Point by point: - You might not garden w/ no equitable return on house value (or at least not build a large gardening setup), and landlords feel the same way in reverse (no benefit to them to do anything beyond the minimum once it's inhabited) - Maintain != im…

Increasing home ownership lowers economic growth. People tend to move jobs less often and have longer commutes both of which reduces economic efficiency. People also tend to rent places which more closely match their needs further reducing waste. AKA, renting and there is no need for a kids room until you have kids, but when buying you may need to plan for your needs in 5+ years out. Further, people really do rent th…

Source?

Housing has driven US GDP growth since WW2 or earlier, so that's a pretty big leap.

Re: Most Germans don’t buy their homes, they rent

#190

Post by dionidium »

Spooky23 wrote: post #180
kgermino wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does anything on your list stem from owning vs renting? Presumably if you were renting - you would still garden and you or your landlord would still maintain the lawn - your landlord would still maintain the house - you would still be living in the community and therefore motivated to participate in it's government - I don't understand this one at all. Why would a second family suddenly move in if the house was r…

Residential properties usually have short term leases. You have minimal incentive as a tenant to plant flowers, buy shrubs, etc. You have minimal inventive as a landlord to make the house look any more attractive than it needs to be. Landlords don't maintain property to the same standard as an individual homeowner, when they do, they use more efficient service models (ie. a single crew with a single set of tools) to…

I don't actually know the answer to this, but wouldn't you expect everything you say to be true in a society where ownership is the norm and not the case in a society where it isn't?
Post reply on HN