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The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

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Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#181

Post by ixtli »

daleharvey wrote: post #172
ixtli wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.facebook.com/WTFlockNews/videos/1132580646806052 Nigel Farage made direct, public claims that the "money going to the EU" would be redirected to the NHS. An hour after the referendum he went on TV claiming that his adverts aren't what he said. This is just the most recent, flaming pile of noxious vomit to come from him but not the only one. EDIT: I completely misread the parent post. My bad! :)

"What prominent lies from Remain?" Farage was campaigning to leave.

Yeah I completely misread the parent comment. My only defense is that because of the time difference I was up very late last night watching coverage of this, so I probably need some coffee XD

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#182

Post by Zpalmtree »

Maydowf wrote: post #30

If this is for real... It is really sad. I understood that xenophobia was the main reason Great Britain wanted to get out of EU, which is also sad.

Wanting a sensible immigration policy or control over your laws is not xenophobia. The idea that half the country is racist is absurd, and downright insulting. There's a reason people voted leave, and part of it is due to both labour and conservatives constantly ignoring the working class's issues over immigration, dismissing them as racist. You reap what you sow.

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#183

Post by ComputerGuru »

ixtli wrote: post #156
nbouscal wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What prominent lies from Remain? There was a lot of what people were calling scaremongering, but if you look at the markets it looks like it was pretty accurate. I've seen thorough takedowns of blatant lies from Leave, but haven't seen anything similar for Remain.

https://www.facebook.com/WTFlockNews/videos/1132580646806052 Nigel Farage made direct, public claims that the "money going to the EU" would be redirected to the NHS. An hour after the referendum he went on TV claiming that his adverts aren't what he said. This is just the most recent, flaming pile of noxious vomit to come from him but not the only one. EDIT: I completely misread the parent post. My bad! :)

GP was asking about lies from Remain's side. Most of the filth and bilge we've been seeing has been racist, xenophobic bigotry from the organisers of the Leave campaign, speaking to populist fears and dreams. Reminds me a lot of Trump's campaign here in the US.

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#184

Post by kosmic_k »

grive wrote: post #83
_9MOTHER9HORSE wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, the fact the EU had enormous power over British people, yet barely anyone knew what it was, what it did, or why it was important, was a compelling reason for the UK to leave.

"Enormous power"; do not paint it as if it were a confederacy. The EU has been a scapegoat in Britain for decades. The elites used it to justify many a policy that would hurt the middle class, while pushing for more and more liberalization once in the EU parliament. The average guy in Britain is just as much at fault here for not following what has been happening. They kept reading their fucking tabloids, the reality…

There has been a mood that the EU has benefited many of those who were more educated and better off while many blue color working class members of British society were left very much behind.

Sure there's the immediate market shock of a decision the market didn't expect, but we can't say for sure that end result in one, two, or five years will be more negative than positive for those Britons.

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#185

Post by jdietrich »

nbouscal wrote: post #147
netcan wrote: post #82

I'm strangely moved by this whole thing. It's a pretty decent status check on where we are with democracy ATM. I'm not against democracy, but I do think we need to pay attention to what it can & can't do. On one hand, this has been a model of democracy. A primary election agenda and referendum. The phrasing of the question was simple, clear and unbiased. The "will of the people" won over the will of the ruling struct…

What prominent lies from Remain? There was a lot of what people were calling scaremongering, but if you look at the markets it looks like it was pretty accurate. I've seen thorough takedowns of blatant lies from Leave, but haven't seen anything similar for Remain.

Full Fact, an independent fact-checking charity, have been critical of the campaign on both sides.

https://fullfact.org/europe/

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#186

Post by methehack »

oldmanjay wrote: post #111
netcan wrote: post #82

I'm strangely moved by this whole thing. It's a pretty decent status check on where we are with democracy ATM. I'm not against democracy, but I do think we need to pay attention to what it can & can't do. On one hand, this has been a model of democracy. A primary election agenda and referendum. The phrasing of the question was simple, clear and unbiased. The "will of the people" won over the will of the ruling struct…

Being "the best wrestler" is basically Trump's campaign strategy so that concept may well be tested soon

Not sure, but I think that may have been a reference to "Idiocracy", the film: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy

The president of the future is a professional wrestler, iirc.

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#187

Post by chirau »

cjjuice wrote: post #161
netcan wrote: post #82

I'm strangely moved by this whole thing. It's a pretty decent status check on where we are with democracy ATM. I'm not against democracy, but I do think we need to pay attention to what it can & can't do. On one hand, this has been a model of democracy. A primary election agenda and referendum. The phrasing of the question was simple, clear and unbiased. The "will of the people" won over the will of the ruling struct…

Plato was always cautious of Democracy. If you are interested I would recommend give his "Republic" a read.

In it is suggested a form of government called epistocracy. It has a lot of merit in my opinion. The basic principle is 'rule of the knowers'. We elect knowledgeable people into power and let them make decisions. We don't vote on what medication a sick child should get, why should we vote on what remedy a sick economy needs? Let the knowledgeable that we have chosen make the prescription.

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#188

Post by thesimpsons1022 »

downandout wrote: post #140

This is the problem with popular votes on issues with far-reaching and complex consequences. There are certain matters that are better left to elected politicians. If one were to have a popular vote as to whether or not we should dissolve the IRS in the US, that measure would likely pass because "yay no taxes!" but would result in the collapse of the US government. I'm not sure that individual voters that have no con…

it's taboo to say this but I've been reading a lot about Ancient Rome before Ceasar and yearn for that type of government. I know people have a disdain for aristocracy but people in charge were raised knowing they'd be powerful. As such, they'd be extensively educated both academically and in Roman culture. (Also sometimes moving to Greece to study at the best universities in the world). There was also no partisanship as each senator made the moves that benefitted them or their people the most.

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#189

Post by brador »

Inthenameofmine wrote: post #145
netcan wrote: post #82

I'm strangely moved by this whole thing. It's a pretty decent status check on where we are with democracy ATM. I'm not against democracy, but I do think we need to pay attention to what it can & can't do. On one hand, this has been a model of democracy. A primary election agenda and referendum. The phrasing of the question was simple, clear and unbiased. The "will of the people" won over the will of the ruling struct…

> We haven't figured this shit out yet. Kings anyone? How about the best wrestler gets to be in charge? ideas? As a Swiss citizen, I think the swiss system is very close to perfect in this regard. Sure, emotional and stupid arguments sometimes prevail, but most of the time the people make the perfect decision. Public discourse is most often also very rational, more so than most world parliaments. Irrational arguments…

How about dynamic voting? Let voters change their vote in real time up to the final second or to a percentage cut off.

Mathematically, 1-(1/e) percent is the ideal cut off (~63%).

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#190

Post by dba7dba »

Eupolemos wrote: post #108
_9MOTHER9HORSE wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, the fact the EU had enormous power over British people, yet barely anyone knew what it was, what it did, or why it was important, was a compelling reason for the UK to leave.

How should the ordinary UK citizen know anything solid? Their newspapers are downright bonkers.

So is US newspapers.
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