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Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

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Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#181

Post by openasocket »

sievebrain wrote: post #172
openasocket wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The legal system in western countries is very biased in favour of rape accusers. This is patently false. Conviction rates for rape are far lower compared to other crimes[1] >Shield laws are a concrete manifestation of that Shield laws make it so news reporters cannot be forced to reveal their sources, I don't see what this has to do with rape cases. >Being asked a few questions is in no way comparable. Being forced…

Conviction rates don't mean much by themselves because anyone can cause conviction rates to rise or fall by adjusting how many complaints are accepted and turned into cases at the police reception desk. The fact that conviction rates are lower than for other crimes just means that people are more likely to report unprosecutable cases: either because the accusations are false, or because there is no evidence. There ar…

> The fact that conviction rates are lower than for other crimes just means that people are more likely to report unprosecutable cases: either because the accusations are false, or because there is no evidence.

If there routinely isn't enough evidence to convict an accused rapist, that would imply that the system isn't biased against the accused.

>There are 'rape shield laws' which is what I was referring to:

Sorry, I should have caught that. It appears this term refers to a bunch of different laws pertaining to rape cases in different jurisdictions. The general idea, that the victim's sexual history is not admissible evidence, makes sense to me. Whether or not the victim had multiple sexual partners or was promiscuous is irrelevant to the facts of the case, and serves only to hurt the victim's reputation. In many of these cases all we have to go on is the testimony of the accuser and the accused, so it is easy for these cases to devolve into character assassination. Obviously this has to be done in such a way that it does not infringe on the rights of the accused to mount a defense. Is there some specific provision in these laws you disagree with, or the entire concept?

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#182

Post by tptacek »

geofft wrote: post #178
PavlovsCat wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are other reports of him passing off research as his own when it was actually by other people, and people being advised to let it go and not draw his ire. Where are those reports though?

There's this one: https://twitter.com/quinnnorton/status/739672273783652353 https://twitter.com/quinnnorton/status/739672512720576513 I recall seeing a few other claims along these lines on Twitter, but Twitter's ability to search your own timeline is atrocious.

There is perhaps no journalist on the entire Internet less trustworthy.

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#183

Post by jubalfh »

retrogradeorbit wrote: post #177
exolymph wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Given false claims epidemics you have in the US these days Citation needed.

I don't think its an 'epidemic' as the poster exaggerated, but it does happen. I don't know about the US, but in Canada the Jian Ghomeshi trial is one recent example that comes to mind. Both the Ghomeshi trial and the Canadian trial of Gregory Alan Elliott show that there are indeed types of people out there who lie to bring charges, or increase the weight of charges bought against someone. And it shows they will lie…

I'm not sure bringing up Gomeshi's case as an example of false accusation is such a very good idea, though.

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#184

Post by DyslexicAtheist »

jacobappelbaum.net is a fake:

https://twitter.com/ValbonneConsult/status/74046605073149952...

https://twitter.com/ValbonneConsult/status/74046629719723212...

Also whatever he might have done will now be drowned out by these false accusations. Mob mentality is as bad as whatever he might have done.

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#185

Post by devishard »

y7 wrote: post #142
devishard wrote: post #139

Quite frankly, why is this on Hacker News? Maybe Jacob Appelbaum raped someone, maybe he didn't. That's not anyone's business except Appelbaum's, his accusers', and the legal system's. It certainly is not a public concern, and it's irrelevant to Tor.

I found it interesting to read. Appelbaum is relatively well-known in tech circles, and I use HN to keep me updated on "what goes on in tech circles" -- whether that's gossip or new technological developments.

"I found it interesting to read" is not a particularly good reason to drag someone's name through the mud for crimes he hasn't been convicted of.

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#186

Post by devishard »

greghatch wrote: post #162
devishard wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> According to this essay, about 3% of men will get falsely accused of rape in their lifetime: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/02/17/lies-damned-lies-and-so... . >> The real number is impossible to determine, but is uncomfortably high. > May I argue that it is uncomfortably low? The estimated percentage of women that are the victims of sexual assault is an order of magnitude higher. If I'm reading you correctly, you…

I don't think you're reading the comment correctly. The comment is not proposing that falsely accusing more people will solve any problems. EDIT: gender agnostic phrasing

Can you propose an alternate meaning to the part I quoted that makes any sense?

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#187

Post by jubalfh »

artichokeheart wrote: post #76
geofft wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any scenario could be possible, from personal revenge to a smear campaign by an intelligence agency. It's also worth being aware of the possibility that Jacob Appelbaum is himself an agent of an intelligence agency (either a plant, or someone turned informant once they realized they could blackmail him and that a creep is a useful informant), and his behavior is a way to maintain his power and in turn the intellige…

Lately I've been thinking that the whole MRA/gamergate/anti-sjw movement was some kind of PsyOps meant to undermine the Internet, but it felt too crazy conspiracy theoryish. That inciteblog post and this article ( http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/jun/24/undercover-police-... ) makes me wonder if I'm right.

That being a conspiracy would be actually quite comforting, wouldn't it?

Unfortunately, I think the simpler explanation – that humanity fails at being both human and humane – is more probable.

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#188

Post by adrienne »

tptacek wrote: post #182
geofft wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's this one: https://twitter.com/quinnnorton/status/739672273783652353 https://twitter.com/quinnnorton/status/739672512720576513 I recall seeing a few other claims along these lines on Twitter, but Twitter's ability to search your own timeline is atrocious.

There is perhaps no journalist on the entire Internet less trustworthy.

Why? What's your beef with Norton?

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#189

Post by espadrine »

devishard wrote: post #186
greghatch wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you're reading the comment correctly. The comment is not proposing that falsely accusing more people will solve any problems. EDIT: gender agnostic phrasing

Can you propose an alternate meaning to the part I quoted that makes any sense?

“The problem is not the number of false reports of rape. The problem is the number of true non-reported rapes.”

Re: Jacob Appelbaum’s response to accusations by the Tor community

#190

Post by pron »

solidsnack9000 wrote: post #165
espadrine wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I argue that it is uncomfortably low? The estimated percentage of women that are the victims of sexual assault is an order of magnitude higher. (See for instance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_assault_in_the_United_S... ) > 23 percent of women and 4 percent of men reported experiencing unwanted sexual contact Even worse, 3% of false positives is a twenty-eighth of the percentage of unreported rapes: https:/…

> May I argue that it is uncomfortably low? You may; but it is certainly high enough to lend credence to those concerned about false accusations.

That doesn't matter. As espadrine says, if the number of false-positives is not similar to the number of false-negatives, you may be concerned by whichever of these numbers you find personally threatening, but you can't claim that to be "the problem". If in a community of cats and mice cat's kill 30% of mice, and mice kill 3% of cats, some cats may personally find that 3% to be uncomfortably high for their taste, but they can't say that this constitutes the worrying part of the violence problem in society.
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