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Xamarin Open-Sourced

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Re: Xamarin Open-Sourced

#181

Post by reitanqild »

yarou wrote: post #146
MichaelGG wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I followed the gitter link to Orleans. I see a bunch of people talking. I'm not going to write "hey so what's this all about" so they can link me to the readme. I went to the repo. The "homepage" includes the readme, which includes enough detail and code examples that I'm all set as far as knowing what Orlean's is "about".

This is how I learned Haskell. I literally went to #haskell on freenode and asked "hey so what's this all about", and many veterans of the community helped me get my feet wet. I'm not sure what kind of toxic communities and work environments you are apart of, but if a newbie to the community can't ask questions, that's not a community that will survive or flourish in the long run.

> I'm not sure what kind of toxic communities and work environments you are apart of, but if a newbie to the community can't ask questions, that's not a community that will survive or flourish in the long run.

Our definitions of toxic obviously differ a bit. I wouldn't flame anyone but (in a non paid setting of course, paying customers have the right to be wrong) I would tell them (politely) that we were there to help them when stuck, not to pull them up to speed.

Before reading this I wouldn't have believed anybody would seriously suggest that.

As others have pointed out going straight to the chat without even trying to read up on the docs first comes off as extremely entitled and lazy.

I'm maybe to hesitant, I wont bother anyone before I've read the relevant docs twice, possibly also looked quickly into the source.

Re: Xamarin Open-Sourced

#182

Post by ygra »

tree_of_item wrote: post #52

Quick question for .NET developers: is there a solution for totally command line driven workflows yet? I really don't want to mess around with .SLN files and IDEs like Visual Studio and MonoDevelop. I'm sure VS is fine for people who like it, but I really want something like `cargo build` or `go build`.

A trivial MSBuild project that simply compiles all C# files in the current folder is not hard to write by hand, although taking one generated by VS and trimming it down might be easier. In any case, there is csc as the command-line compiler as well.

Re: Xamarin Open-Sourced

#183

Post by treehau5 »

spicyj wrote: post #139
treehau5 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I will most certainly agree there is "publicly accessible" source, which is essentially what Microsoft, Facebook, and the likes have, where you can view the code, but getting a pull request accepted requires signing a CLA (with varying levels of avarice) and conforming to the goals of the organization, rather than the project. (Actually I will defend facebook by saying their CLA is not that egregious, and accord…

> the version of react that is open sourced is actually different than the version they use internally That's not true; we use the same code.

Thank you for confirming. A few people told me this but I was a little suspicious, but again you can never truly know.

Re: Xamarin Open-Sourced

#184

Post by bmaupin »

throwawaykf05 wrote: post #102
jeswin wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not a Google fanboy, I am merely saying they abide by the spirit of Open Source. I just used them as an example. RedHat is another example. > Google has also managed to use the patents to sue other companies including Microsoft. Can you post a link to Google suing Microsoft first (not in retaliation)? Google was way behind in the patent game until they got hurt. Google bought Motorola to have a defensive patent…

Throughout all the patent wars and all the rhetoric Google produced about competitors abusing patents, it was Google , as the owner of Motorola, that was the only company penalized in court for actually abusing patents: http://patentlyo.com/patent/2015/08/agreement-microsoft-moto... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Corp._v._Motorola_In... . Sure, the lawsuit was started 2 months before Google acquired Motorola…

"Those demands from Motorola should more properly be seen as a counter-offensive prompted by Microsoft’s demands for royalties on every Android implementation."

http://patentlyo.com/patent/2015/08/agreement-microsoft-moto...

Re: Xamarin Open-Sourced

#185

Post by serge2k »

colbyAFTrustedK wrote: post #177
serge2k wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so?

I don't understand the question.

> If you look at the way it's currently written, it's almost as if it was specifically meant to preserve their option to pull an Oracle v Google against a vendor who decides to pick up .NET and run with it

how so?

Re: Xamarin Open-Sourced

#186

Post by cptskippy »

Corrado wrote: post #172
rpgmaker wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't a mistake at all. Sun was a lot of things besides Java, it just wasn't worth it for them and they were right to take a pass. Even if they end up paying big dollars to Oracle, the amount won't be high enough to retroactively justify buying Sun. Android is big now and it can weather whatever comes from this patent battle.

I don't know, they basically bought Motorola to stop the patent trolls from getting them. After the purchase they broke up the company and sold the parts they didn't want/need. I could see the same thing happening to a Sun purchase; take the Java stuff and sell off everything else (SunOS, hardware, etc.)

Sun had a nice patent portfolio too. Some of Google's current initiatives, like being part of the OpenPower Alliance, might have benefited from the hardware acquisition as well with RISC being all the rage again. Having Solaris in their back pocket would have been handy and ZFS might have been re-licensed to be more GPL friendly as well.

I'm not sure how much of that Google could directly benefit from but they could have definitely gain a metric fkton of community good will by opening many of the technologies Sun owned that have floundered since the Oracle acquisition.

Re: Xamarin Open-Sourced

#187

Post by osweiller »

mb_72 wrote: post #141
osweiller wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does Unity have to do with Xamarin? Are you referring to the fact that Unity uses an old version of Mono, because that hardly is relevant to greenspot's comment. To their actual comment, it is extraordinarily difficult to make a quality product with Xamarin. As they said, there are shockingly few wins built with it. There are loads and loads of teams using it, all sure that it's the short cut that will build for…

I'm genuinely curious as to where you are getting your information from - ? Are you referring to Xamarin Forms in particular? One isn't forced to use Forms, it's possible to utilise Xamarin iOS and Android, but still have (for example) a PCL that contains everything except for the visual side of things.

This is based upon attempting to use the products to build some solutions. The Xamarin advantage is in the cross-platform tooling (if I'm making separate code for each, why would I bother with a layer of abstraction?), but when used it generates a compromised result.

It is perfectly fine for some relatively simple things. Basic information apps, etc. But it isn't long in complex apps before the abstraction is leaking all over the place, and you find yourself fighting the tooling rather than leveraging the tooling. Which has been the case for virtually every similar "all platforms one tool" type solutions.

Re: Xamarin Open-Sourced

#188

Post by yarou »

reitanqild wrote: post #181
yarou wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how I learned Haskell. I literally went to #haskell on freenode and asked "hey so what's this all about", and many veterans of the community helped me get my feet wet. I'm not sure what kind of toxic communities and work environments you are apart of, but if a newbie to the community can't ask questions, that's not a community that will survive or flourish in the long run.

> I'm not sure what kind of toxic communities and work environments you are apart of, but if a newbie to the community can't ask questions, that's not a community that will survive or flourish in the long run. Our definitions of toxic obviously differ a bit. I wouldn't flame anyone but (in a non paid setting of course, paying customers have the right to be wrong) I would tell them (politely) that we were there to hel…

I think a lot of people misunderstood my comment. I obviously understand that there are basic questions that can be answered by documentation.

But my point was that for any community to survive, it should be welcoming to newbies and have an environment where people shouldn't be afraid to ask questions, even if they are "dumb" by some arbitrary metric. It's also a good way to convince someone of using your particular framework, programming language, etc.

A newbie may ask why should I use X, and if experienced veterans of the community give set Y reasons to use it, I feel that's way more convincing than "RTFM scrub". It's way less elitist too.

Re: Xamarin Open-Sourced

#189

Post by tacos »

osweiller wrote: post #187
mb_72 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm genuinely curious as to where you are getting your information from - ? Are you referring to Xamarin Forms in particular? One isn't forced to use Forms, it's possible to utilise Xamarin iOS and Android, but still have (for example) a PCL that contains everything except for the visual side of things.

This is based upon attempting to use the products to build some solutions. The Xamarin advantage is in the cross-platform tooling (if I'm making separate code for each, why would I bother with a layer of abstraction?), but when used it generates a compromised result. It is perfectly fine for some relatively simple things. Basic information apps, etc. But it isn't long in complex apps before the abstraction is leaking…

"Compromised" how? "Leaky abstraction"? What is the abstraction and can you please provide specific examples of the leak?

It worked between Mac and Windows on very complicated apps. It bridged Linux and Windows for tweaky MVC stacks a decade ago (then they wisely sharpened their focus.) It got the job done pumping data through hardcore game engines. The network stack is proven robust. You're talking about it like it's some stupid ORM wrapper or wonky Widget UI library. It is not.

Re: Xamarin Open-Sourced

#190

Post by mb_72 »

osweiller wrote: post #187
mb_72 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm genuinely curious as to where you are getting your information from - ? Are you referring to Xamarin Forms in particular? One isn't forced to use Forms, it's possible to utilise Xamarin iOS and Android, but still have (for example) a PCL that contains everything except for the visual side of things.

This is based upon attempting to use the products to build some solutions. The Xamarin advantage is in the cross-platform tooling (if I'm making separate code for each, why would I bother with a layer of abstraction?), but when used it generates a compromised result. It is perfectly fine for some relatively simple things. Basic information apps, etc. But it isn't long in complex apps before the abstraction is leaking…

I was specifically referring to your comment "There are loads and loads of teams using it, all sure that it's the short cut that will build for everything with one code base, but so few wins." that implied knowledge above one's own experience.

BTW Xamarin Forms has or is about to receive a bunch of updates, perhaps it's worthwhile checking them out in case things have improved for you?

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