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Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

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Re: Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

#181

Post by falcolas »

Aissen wrote: post #164
falcolas wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish Sahat had reached out to more of his network before responding to random recruiters. Has his network moved forward in what they do? I've found with my own network that so many of them are in the same (or equivalent) spots they were when I left to advance my career. Not precisely positions of power which I can take advantage of for the next step forward in my career.

You do not need to be in position of power to refer someone.

The usefulness of contacts only really matters when they are managing (or are a key-decider in) the team you wish to apply for.

Otherwise, a reference will only add to the burden you have to overcome with the interviewers - they will consider not only your qualities, but the referrer's qualities as well. "Richard vouched for Jane? But Richard is writing testing software, and we're hiring for backend. We don't need a SDET or we would have hired Richard."

Re: Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

#183

Post by LaurenceW1 »

zappo2938 wrote: post #178

"Write a maze solving algorithm" I just solved that in less than 3 seconds. Here is the solution in a Fiddle[0] and the discussion on Stack Exchange.[1]Sorry, I'm too busy solving problems which haven't been solved yet to bother with problems that have been solved. [0]: http://jsfiddle.net/5g7se8qL/7/ [1]: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16173259/javascript-maze-...

You wrote that in 3 seconds huh

Re: Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

#184

Post by dijit »

collyw wrote: post #177
aristus wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not ironic, it's very much by design. It's a bit like the Army. In theory anyone of any age and background can join up, but the physical requirements and "culture fit" does a very good job of selecting for young males.

Designed to weed out experienced engineers that know how to build production ready systems?

Designed to only hire malleable employees who are not engrained in a way of thinking already, perhaps.

it's hard to unlearn habits, and what's good to us might not be good to google.

EDIT: someone is sour, did I say something that didn't add to the conversation?

Re: Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

#185

Post by metaphorm »

notliketherest wrote: post #180

If you don't like Google's hiring process, apply somewhere else. There's plenty of viarety among a whole host of different companies large and small. The reality is Google gets hundreds of thousands of candidates a year and has these processes in place for a reason. The interview machine at Google spans the entire company and everyone is expected to participate and give detailed feedback at each stage and "rank" a ca…

I'm not sure why you feel the need to apologize for and defend google's interviewing practices.

they are entitled to interview in whatever way they choose, but you should recognize that it is a highly idiosyncratic process that has been widely criticized by many many many people.

Re: Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

#186

Post by unoti »

tobz wrote: post #166
unoti wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's well publicized what to expect at interviews for these firms. It shows that you're willing to put in the preparation to make it work. In addition to putting in the work of memorizing the algorithms, a candidate needs to know how to apply them, and to write code, and to accept feedback, and to collaborate and communicate. If a candidate isn't willing to put in the work to prepare, it's not much of a cognitive lea…

Do you not find it strange, or at least confusing, that you're arguing a point here that is predicated on studying for an interview, rather than the actual position? "This person didn't study for the interview, so what did they expect to happen?" Oh, I don't know, maybe to be asked questions directly related to the position, amongst other things.

> Do you not find it strange, or at least confusing, that you're arguing a point here that is predicated on studying for an interview, rather than the actual position?

No, I don't find it strange that I want them to prepare for something they're not going to use normally, but agree it might be confusing.

For the actual positions I'm hiring for, nobody in the world outside our teams understands the systems. The candidates are going to need to work hard to learn what's going on when they start their new job. Some of it is going to be hard to do and not always a complete pleasure. Essentially I see it as a personality test that selects for the kind of people that figure out how to overcome technical adversity.

Willingness to do the work to be prepared and eagerness to dive into technical arcana despite it being not very easy-- these things are very relevant to the positions I hire for at Microsoft.

Re: Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

#187

Post by tyingq »

kkapelon wrote: post #167
nouney wrote: post #62

"How many people can actually write BFS on the spot, without preparing for it in advance?" A lot of people. You should too, even if you're just a front-end.

What about the maze solving question? Should all front-end developers be able to create a maze solving algorithm on the spot, during an interview, under time pressure?

I would at least offer something back, like a loop that randomly chooses left/right, restarts loop if dead end, exit loop if solved. Then verbally walk through how you might improve on it incrementally.

Re: Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

#188

Post by tobz »

unoti wrote: post #186
tobz wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not find it strange, or at least confusing, that you're arguing a point here that is predicated on studying for an interview, rather than the actual position? "This person didn't study for the interview, so what did they expect to happen?" Oh, I don't know, maybe to be asked questions directly related to the position, amongst other things.

> Do you not find it strange, or at least confusing, that you're arguing a point here that is predicated on studying for an interview, rather than the actual position? No, I don't find it strange that I want them to prepare for something they're not going to use normally, but agree it might be confusing. For the actual positions I'm hiring for, nobody in the world outside our teams understands the systems. The candid…

> I want them to prepare for something they're not going to use normally

> Essentially I see it as a personality test that selects for the kind of people that figure in it how to overcome technical adversity.

This seems at odds with the original "ask", as it were: study up on some basic CS algorithms, and now I know you can handle what we're going to throw at you here. Ignoring the obvious "well, we need to make sure they can learn basic things", how is this even a viable test if your environment is so advanced, so high up, that you expect new candidates to encounter actual adversity?

Re: Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

#189

Post by [deleted] »

LaurenceW1 wrote: post #183
zappo2938 wrote: post #178

"Write a maze solving algorithm" I just solved that in less than 3 seconds. Here is the solution in a Fiddle[0] and the discussion on Stack Exchange.[1]Sorry, I'm too busy solving problems which haven't been solved yet to bother with problems that have been solved. [0]: http://jsfiddle.net/5g7se8qL/7/ [1]: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16173259/javascript-maze-...

You wrote that in 3 seconds huh

[deleted]

Re: Hiring Is Broken – My interview experience in the tech industry

#190

Post by metaphorm »

zappo2938 wrote: post #178

"Write a maze solving algorithm" I just solved that in less than 3 seconds. Here is the solution in a Fiddle[0] and the discussion on Stack Exchange.[1]Sorry, I'm too busy solving problems which haven't been solved yet to bother with problems that have been solved. [0]: http://jsfiddle.net/5g7se8qL/7/ [1]: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16173259/javascript-maze-...

and what does that have to do with the author's point? or did you just want to show off...
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