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Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

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Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#181

Post by williamcotton » Tue, Apr 12, 2016, 7:33 PM UTC

baldfat wrote: post #153

pink_dinner wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you create a 'middle class' when there is no money left in the industry for smaller artists? Pandora pays the superstars well and if you aren't getting millions of plays, you aren't making enough to even provide for yourself. This all started with file sharing 15 years ago. Everyone thought they were helping out the independent artists, but in reality, it made it so they could no longer compete without a huge…

> Everyone thought they were helping out the independent artists, but in reality, it made it so they could no longer compete without a huge corporation backing them. File sharing has only helped big labels by increasing the barrier to entry. Speaking about Indie Music I'm the SMALL Record Label. The money comes in through sales of Merch, Gigs and selling CD/MP3. I think there has never been a time better for Indie Mu…

I still write originals but I only put them in my set if they're better than the covers I know.

More indie rock bands should play more covers and stop pretending like they're god's gift to songwriting. More people would go to and enjoy their shows.

The country, bluegrass, jam, americana and folk scenes have tons of fans that support a large number of pro and semi-pro pickers and singers. They play a lot of covers because people do like to hear their favorite songs played live. A lot of them get to the point where they're playing like half their own songs, but some will always play songs written by other people.

The pickers that can play lead on an instrument, sing, and write songs are called "triple threats". These guys are few and far between and end up being superstars. Jimi Hendrix, Merle Haggard, Jerry Garcia, Willie Nelson and Brad Paisley, just to name a few. They play lead instruments on other people's recordings, sing other people's songs, and write songs for other people. Notice the emphasis on "other people". That's kind of lacking in indie music, which instead has a philosophy of solipsism. It's built right in to the DIY ethic. Don't sing someone else's songs, sing your own songs. It's ultimately a losing formula.

I make more money, play to more people and have more fun playing covers to people down at corporate gigs or just down at the local bar than I ever did in whatever indie rock band I've played in throughout the years. It seemed like we were trying to reinvent music from a faded memory in every indie band I was in. Covers were uncool, and we had to define "Our sound". "Our sound" ended up being much shittier than traditional forms like country or the blues.

Oh well, indie rock will be dead in 10 years tops. I've got a lot of refugees from the indie rock scene learning to play more traditional music. Either that or they just hang up their guitars for good. The DIY ethos is just too alienated and embittered to for people who feel like making the transition to adulthood.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#182

Post by partisan » Tue, Apr 12, 2016, 7:35 PM UTC

theseatoms wrote: post #94

partisan wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see what you did there. The question is a good one. How does one differentiate themselves from the pack. The same goes for just about any art form today. There are so many artists and so many works, many of them good enough to tickle your fancy and yet the majority of them will only get a tiny fraction of the consideration they deserve. I would love to publish music or books, but I know that given my dysfunctional…

What does your dysfunctional relationship with social media have to do with producing works of art? I honestly just didn't follow your train of thought. The arts have to be their own reward. If you're making art for money, and not the love, it's probably not worth doing. For better or worse, the marketplace is finally realizing this.

I guess I was assuming that there is a link between reaching people through social media and success in the arts. If I want to sell a book or album and I am not backed by a large publisher, I would likely have to market the book myself. The best way would probably be through social media.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#183

Post by jmacd » Tue, Apr 12, 2016, 7:37 PM UTC

baldfat wrote: post #23

I owned a SMALL Record Label and Studio. I was (still?) good at picking out talent in bands. The Whole Industry Sucks I had two bands that ended up on Major Labels and Toured the World. I met a kid on the street wearing one of my Bands shirts and struck up a conversation. They still love the band 10 years later. These guys per person made at the TOP $7,000 in profit after expenses were paid. One band did a KickStarte…

I loved Zao! That disappoints me

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#184

Post by specialist » Tue, Apr 12, 2016, 7:38 PM UTC

williamcotton wrote: post #132

chx wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really like Patreon. https://patreon.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/204606315-What... it's continuous crowdfunding.

It's just that Patreon is financial agnostic. We need to treat these investments like fungible capital goods. And we need to invest in the intellectual property that artists make, not the artists themselves. Why should we do that? Because it works and its a foundational element of a market economy. We're capable of much more than a simplistic patron model. That's how things were financed in the middle ages. We've got…

Yup. Currently supporting a future working artist. How to make a living as a working artist is a big topic for her cohort.

I've been optimistic for stuff like etsy.com and artsyo.com. I have some additional notions (use cases) that I probably won't ever have the gumption to tackle, but would love to see happen.

Now I wonder about the marketing magic required for self-promotion and "multi-channel" content. Of her peers is a genius for self-promotion, self-publishing. Another does side gigs teaching art, running events like art parties for children birthdays. And everyone's chasing commissions, of course.

Not so different from being a consultant or small biz entrepreneur , really.

--

Big fan of de Soto. Thanks for the Tyler Cowen link.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#185

Post by theseatoms » Tue, Apr 12, 2016, 7:38 PM UTC

partisan wrote: post #182

theseatoms wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does your dysfunctional relationship with social media have to do with producing works of art? I honestly just didn't follow your train of thought. The arts have to be their own reward. If you're making art for money, and not the love, it's probably not worth doing. For better or worse, the marketplace is finally realizing this.

I guess I was assuming that there is a link between reaching people through social media and success in the arts. If I want to sell a book or album and I am not backed by a large publisher, I would likely have to market the book myself. The best way would probably be through social media.

Ah, got it. Yeah, publishers and record labels seem to serve primarily as well-oiled marketing machines these days.

But surely you could organize your own precision-strike book or album release via targeted online ads. I'd be surprised if there weren't lots of companies trying to sell this service.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#186

Post by mariodiana » Tue, Apr 12, 2016, 7:39 PM UTC

mathattack wrote: post #56

yolesaber wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, to be fair, Steve Miller is like the blandest of bland dad rock. And Miles Davis is literally the coolest person who ever lived.

If you say this, you've only listened to early 80s Steve Miller. Check out his blues and folk. Lots are up on Youtube. (Which, to the point of the original article, probably doesn't pay him much)

I saw Steve Miller a few years back in concert. I wouldn't have even considered myself a fan before having seen him, but I came away very impressed. I was even dreading "Abracadabra," but so help me that song was great live.

His singing and playing were both spot on. His sound was terrific. I'm a guitar player myself, and the tones he got from his Les Paul and Strat were textbook examples of classic, excellent tone. The band was tight as a band can be. It was a great night of music. The guy is a first rate musician.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#187

Post by bogomipz » Tue, Apr 12, 2016, 7:41 PM UTC

It's unfortunate that Tidal is/was such a bust because that really is the right way forward for artists. The big streaming services - Spotify/Google/Apple Music are all just continuing to prop up this horrible abomination known as the "music business" and their business as usual.

Record companies provide three basic functions to artists:

A source of financing.

A distribution system.

A marketing department.

There are alternative channels for each of these now:

Financing has largely been democratized by things like kickstarter et al.

Distribution is a solved problem via either all the services largely propping up the 3 major labels or else soundcloud, youtube etc.

There's plenty of independent marketing companies that will "work your record" for a fee.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#188

Post by ascendantlogic » Tue, Apr 12, 2016, 7:43 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #146

ArkyBeagle wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The labels that didn't come out ahead don't exist any more. Nobody says this: In the 1980s, you could establish the sort of relationships to get priority at CD plants and resell back catalog that was already universally known. So the people who won did that instead of so much trying to break new acts. The last gasp of a flood of new acts actually getting on radio was the SubPop ... thing in the 1990s. After that, not…

Literally anyone can put a streaming app into the major app stores these days and bypass all of this. Why are the Big 3 still in this chokehold position? Is the market failing, or do they actually provide valuable services that can't be obtained elsewhere? In either case: why is that?

They own the rights to everything. I believe the RIAA gets paid even if music is played/streamed that they don't own the rights to, until the musicians come claim the money. Movies and music showed how much power they have over the last two decades once Napster and later torrenting lit a fire under their asses. It's not just our government that is in their pockets. The TPP is a good example of them using the US' position as economic superpower to get their wishes imposed on other countries. See also: Megaupload.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#189

Post by duderific » Tue, Apr 12, 2016, 7:48 PM UTC

AnthonyNagid wrote: post #164

nickknw wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> healthy primary income provided by the synergy between them and their community Definitely interested in this.

As a pianist the key here would be musical versatility, there is a lot of work but it is spread across musical domains. The musical skills might include reading literacy, proficiency in improvisational idioms and the ability to teach these things. The more difficult realm might be establishing a working band of professionals, per individual the professional attitude would be worth more than sheer musical skill. Profe…

As something like a solo pianist, I would say you might be able to scratch out a living using all the various outlets you described -- teaching being primary among them as far as ways to generate income.

Re: Steve Miller: The Whole Music Industry Is Fuckin' Gangsters and Crooks

#190

Post by WalterBright » Tue, Apr 12, 2016, 7:50 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #146

ArkyBeagle wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The labels that didn't come out ahead don't exist any more. Nobody says this: In the 1980s, you could establish the sort of relationships to get priority at CD plants and resell back catalog that was already universally known. So the people who won did that instead of so much trying to break new acts. The last gasp of a flood of new acts actually getting on radio was the SubPop ... thing in the 1990s. After that, not…

Literally anyone can put a streaming app into the major app stores these days and bypass all of this. Why are the Big 3 still in this chokehold position? Is the market failing, or do they actually provide valuable services that can't be obtained elsewhere? In either case: why is that?

Watch the movie "The Wrecking Crew". Essentially, the studio fixes the nascent tune penned by the artist, and provides studio musicians to play on the recordings. The band rarely plays, or even sings, on the album. The reason is simple, they don't play that well, or sing that well, and the studio musicians do.

This is one big reason why bands/singers/artists need labels. They're not able to turn the lyrics on the back of a napkin into a credible album on their own. They often don't even write the songs - the label has a stable of songwriters to do that for them. The artist is often just a pretty face autotuned in.

Even if a band can produce a CD on their own, they need promotion, manufacturing, and distribution. Who is going to get their CD in front of DJs, etc.? Who is going to set up concerts? Who is going to handle the financing? Who is going to do all the work needed to run a business?

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