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San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

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181–190 of 542 posts

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#181
post #107

Fuck. And I thought paying $1k a month in Toronto was too much. I've been looking for work in cheaper cities like Hamilton or London literally because what I make versus what it takes to survive don't sit well with me - and never have.

As someone who lives in Toronto proper, $1k/month is ridiculously cheap unless you live in a basement apartment with possibly a roommate, depending on location.

Roommate. Dovercourt.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#182
post #107

Fuck. And I thought paying $1k a month in Toronto was too much. I've been looking for work in cheaper cities like Hamilton or London literally because what I make versus what it takes to survive don't sit well with me - and never have.

Oh cool, another Toronto developer!! I never see a lot in HN. Are you working for a startup? Also, why Hamilton or London? Have you tried looking for jobs in the Kitchener / Waterloo area? There are a lot of nice startups there as well as established companies. My friend recently got a job there at a bank.

Working for a design firm handling all their development. Hamilton and London also have the same kind of start up communities that the KW has without the pretension of going to UW (I'm a college drop out). Also more expensive in KW than Hamilton. Plus n other reasons why I don't like Toronto and prefer smaller cities, etc.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also no state income tax in TX, I believe.

Yup. From Bankrate.com - Seven U.S. states currently don't have an income tax: Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington and Wyoming. And residents of New Hampshire and Tennessee are also spared from handing over an extra chunk of their paycheck on April 15, though they do pay tax on dividends and income from investments.

[deleted]

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#184
post #111

It's hard to overstate the impact this is going to have on San Francisco, long-term. As Technology becomes the most important industry in America, a well-governed San Francisco could have positioned itself as the next NYC. The hub where all of tech gathers, the same way all of finance gathered in Wall St. Replace the 70 year old 2-storey homes with Manhattan style apartment buildings, and rent in San Francisco would…

One of the problems is the lack of city governments and wealthy homeowners here to think beyond just SF. The Bay Area as a whole, from San Francisco to Oakland to San Jose, should work together to solve the housing and infrastructural issues we have here. It's not even just SF that needs to build. The entire Bay needs to pitch in, from San Jose to Novato. ( https://www.reddit.com/r/bayarea/comments/zprpe/the_actual_o…

This is true. My sister is a civil engineer on the SMART train - supposed to have been light rail from Fishermans Wharf all the way to Santa Rosa. The Golden Gate Bridge actually has a railway line below it that hasn't been used. But the train will only go to Larkspur ferry because Marin disallowed it.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having grown up in Portland, it's remarkable how quickly the housing prices have skyrocketed in less than 5 years.

Metro (being the Portland area's multi-county regional government) voted last year to not expand the urban growth boundary. So the supply of single-family homes with yards is basically fixed, while demand is growing. Expect home prices to continue to grow (Portland's rate is top in the U.S.) as new housing construction continues to be constrained to dense multi-family structures for the next five years until Metro vo…

What rises with house prices - property taxes. Revenue for Metro. I am going to assume there's a non-negligible correlation.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#186
post #111

It's hard to overstate the impact this is going to have on San Francisco, long-term. As Technology becomes the most important industry in America, a well-governed San Francisco could have positioned itself as the next NYC. The hub where all of tech gathers, the same way all of finance gathered in Wall St. Replace the 70 year old 2-storey homes with Manhattan style apartment buildings, and rent in San Francisco would…

"a well-governed San Francisco could have positioned itself as the next NYC. The hub where all of tech gathers, the same way all of finance gathered in Wall St. Replace the 70 year old 2-storey homes with Manhattan style apartment buildings, and rent in San Francisco would have remained very reasonable, despite the rapid economic growth. This would have prevented exactly this problem where tech workers are forced to disperse to other mini-hubs, due to lack of capacity in San Francisco."

...or we could move to a sensible model, where software delivers on its promise and allows people to work anywhere. The cost of living here is the invisible hand of the market showing you that you're making a mistake by locating your company in the bay area. Yet the dominant techno-nerd narrative continues to be that the bay area has somehow made a mistake in not anticipating the bizarre fetish that global wealth has developed for local real estate since the early 1990s.

It's insane that an industry of otherwise-intelligent people insists on cramming itself onto a tiny peninsula with seismic development challenges, and I chuckle every time someone draws the comparison to New York, which has seven times the land area, a capable and efficient transit system that has been developed over more than a century...and one of the highest costs of living in the world. Development is not a panacea.

I live in SF, but I wouldn't make the choice to move here today. It simply isn't worth Manhattan prices to live in a city full of tech bros, where you can't get a good meal after 9:30. Increasingly, the choice not to locate your company in SF is a sign of competitive intelligence.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#187
As a software developer already living in Portland, I'm loving this. I have no quantitative proof, but it feels like, even as recent as 10 years ago, the high tech in the Portland area was very hardware oriented. These days it seems like there are more software startups, and more high profile software companies (Amazon, Google, Ebay) with offices in the area.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#188
post #37
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dear folks interested in Oregon, come to Eugene!

Grew up there. Still seems like it's struggling to put together much of a tech industry. More seems to be happening here in Bend in some ways, despite being a significantly smaller town. And the weather is way better over here too!

And then there's the breweries!

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with the amount of vitriol in your comment, but I agree with the overall sentiment. I feel like tech workers in San Francisco are fully bought-in to the "this is the best and only place to be if you're in tech" idea. So much so that they can't quite see that the grass is just as green on the other side, so to speak. You have to be fully bought-in to it, there's no other way you would be able to justify…

I'm curious if you've lived in the Bay Area for any length of time. I used to live in Boston (which at the time was the #2 tech scene in the country, but has probably been eclipsed by Seattle/NYC/Austin by now). There were startups and meetups and hacker spaces as well, including a number of famous ones. The Bay Area is a huge difference in degree. The difference is that you had to find the "tech scene" in Boston, wh…

> "in Silicon Valley, tech is the scene. If you go out for coffee, nearly everybody in the coffeeshop will be working on some tech startup. If you sit down at a restaurant, there's a good chance that the table next to you will have a group of engineers from some large tech company, or an investor being pitched by an entrepreneur, or a group of friends planning a startup. If you go to a random party - even ones thrown by non-techies - half the people there will work in tech."

Half sounds like an underestimate, probably more like 80%.

All of the above is why I left the Bay Area. I love tech, but geez. It's like loving chocolate and living in a chocolate house eating chocolate for every meal. I got about 6 months into that before a switch flipped and it became the most aggravating, insufferable thing ever.

Re: San Francisco Tech Firms See Workers Flee from $4,500 Rents

#190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also no state income tax in TX, I believe.

Yup. From Bankrate.com - Seven U.S. states currently don't have an income tax: Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington and Wyoming. And residents of New Hampshire and Tennessee are also spared from handing over an extra chunk of their paycheck on April 15, though they do pay tax on dividends and income from investments.

Gotta love New Hampshire. Also no sales tax, too. Property taxes are high, but not outrageously more so than in neighboring areas of Maine and Massachusetts - which additionally have sizable income taxes and sales taxes.

I saved nearly $500 a month in taxes moving from Maine to New Hampshire, staying in the same job.

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