Someone somewhere asked why a lot of people in the Go community is taking this in a somewhat hard way, here is my hypothesis: Go, unlike Chess, has deep mytho attached to it. Throughout the history of many Asian countries it's seen as the ultimate abstract strategy game that deeply relies on players' intuition, personality, worldview. The best players are not described as "smart", they are described as "wise". I thin…
AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol again in match 2 of 5
181–190 of 576 posts
Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol again in match 2 of 5
#182Nonetheless, AlphaGo takes a minute and a half to play its next move. Can anyone explain what on earth is going on during those 90 seconds?
Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol again in match 2 of 5
#183Someone somewhere asked why a lot of people in the Go community is taking this in a somewhat hard way, here is my hypothesis: Go, unlike Chess, has deep mytho attached to it. Throughout the history of many Asian countries it's seen as the ultimate abstract strategy game that deeply relies on players' intuition, personality, worldview. The best players are not described as "smart", they are described as "wise". I thin…
Actually this AI kind of confirms these myths, since its basis are not in mathematics but in neural networks. While it could be argued to be just math, so is the brain, but that's besides the point. The point is, even the programmers have no idea what the AI is thinking. The way it picks moves is very similar to how top professionals do. Intuition is reduced to memories stored vaguely as neural connections.
So the most likely explanation is that policy/value nets in AlphaGo have learned to extract - with cold logic - the key factors that make up what humans believe to be "good" board positions.
It has little to do with voodoo about neural connections and magic emerging from the weights. AlphaGo has most likely managed to identify the important factors of good board positions (by seeing tons of examples of good and bad moves/positions). It only appears to be magical because these factors are most likely very complex and inter-dependent.
This is supported by the AlphaGo paper - they report that AlphaGo without tree search is about as good as the best tree search programs (amateur pro level). So AlphaGo has taken amateur-pro-level board analysis ability, and combined it with tree search, to achieve top-player performance..
Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol again in match 2 of 5
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
Stored discretely and permanently you mean..
I mean it's not clear in anyway "where" is the intuition, it just sort of magically emerges from the connections and the weights in a way that no one can really grasp. If nothing else, just due to the sheer number of neurones.
Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol again in match 2 of 5
#185Someone somewhere asked why a lot of people in the Go community is taking this in a somewhat hard way, here is my hypothesis: Go, unlike Chess, has deep mytho attached to it. Throughout the history of many Asian countries it's seen as the ultimate abstract strategy game that deeply relies on players' intuition, personality, worldview. The best players are not described as "smart", they are described as "wise". I thin…
Now go read "The Player of Games", by Iain M. Banks, to see that idea taken to extremes.
Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol again in match 2 of 5
#186What I really liked about those games so far, and Michael Redmond commentary, is that AlphaGo not only beat Lee Sedol twice, but also Redmond. He is playing the same style as Sedol, he constantly predicts Sedol's moves and he is as surprised and does the same miscalculations as Sedol. He really needs some time to find out when he made a mistake, the same mistake Sedol was eventually doing. This is high class commenta…
IIRC that's basic expectation of any Go player at a non-trivial level, starting from the mid-high amateur ranks.
It's completely expected that both players and observers can record the game on a kifu or replay and discuss it immediately after they finish.
Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol again in match 2 of 5
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
Fan Hui has already learned from AlphaGo. He's been playing matches against her regularly, and (perhaps as a result of that) won _all_ his games in the last European championship.
Interesting. Mind if I ask for a source? Where did you read this?
Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol again in match 2 of 5
#188Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol again in match 2 of 5
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
Interesting. Mind if I ask for a source? Where did you read this?
Heard it. Internal tech talk at Google. (Though I don't think it's a secret. If yes, I just leaked inadvertently.)
Re: AlphaGo beats Lee Sedol again in match 2 of 5
#190Someone somewhere asked why a lot of people in the Go community is taking this in a somewhat hard way, here is my hypothesis: Go, unlike Chess, has deep mytho attached to it. Throughout the history of many Asian countries it's seen as the ultimate abstract strategy game that deeply relies on players' intuition, personality, worldview. The best players are not described as "smart", they are described as "wise". I thin…
If an AI won the next Hugo award, I would be rejoiced. It wouldn't mean the end of literature at all; it would mean that humans are ready to produce an even higher form of literature.