Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup • Hacker News Board

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#181

Post by nobleach » Wed, Jan 20, 2016, 5:15 PM UTC

lmm wrote: post #121

strictnein wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bad ideas like Javascript and Mozilla.

I think the web would be much better off without either of those. Without Javascript we would have got real programming languages on the web quicker (maybe tklets would have taken off). Without Mozilla we would have got a sensible box model quicker, a sensible way of embedding audio/video quicker, and more development on the open-source-from-the-ground-up (and, not coincidentally I think, higher quality code) KHTML s…

The only programming languages vying for a web position were those from Microsoft and Java. Yes, VBScript and Java are real programming languages. And no, I wouldn't have wanted either on the web. Having lived through those dark days, I think it's a bit myopic to think things would actually be better if those days were still in effect.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#182

Post by chippy » Wed, Jan 20, 2016, 5:15 PM UTC

runjake wrote: post #101

The first question that pops into my head is "How is Brave going to monetize?". They've received substantial investor money, so apparently they have something lucrative in mind. And it's probably not good for privacy-conscious end users.

They are monetizing by....advertising!

They substitute bad ads for their ads.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#183

Post by metafunctor » Wed, Jan 20, 2016, 5:15 PM UTC

Touche wrote: post #13

The scrolling on this website is janky as hell. Looks like they are using some "Smooth scrolling" plugin that makes scrolling not smooth at all. Not sure why native browser scrolling was insufficient for them, I'm scrolling here in HN all the time and it's perfectly smooth.

Just block smoothScroll.js in your ad blocker :)

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#184

Post by anotherhacker » Wed, Jan 20, 2016, 5:15 PM UTC

roneesh wrote: post #99

anotherhacker wrote: post #45

I'm doubtful of this taking off. People stick with the default apps and settings. The average person just really doesn't care that much about this kind of thing. Maybe enterprise or businesses will like it - so they can avoid their employees visit whitelisted sites that mistakenly have malicious code in the ads. Eg. Flash

I'm not so sure that the average person won't care. They are increasingly aware of how much they pay for data on their phone plans, and how crossing limits decreases their speeds. After a big bill or two, people start looking for options.

"Why 3.5 times more Apple users choose Apple Maps over Google Maps"

The power of default settings is huge. Perhaps you're thinking of yourself or your peers.90% of the rest of the population just doesn't care about these issues.

Source: http://fortune.com/2015/06/16/apple-google-maps-ios/

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#185

Post by meanduck » Wed, Jan 20, 2016, 5:16 PM UTC

matthewtoast wrote: post #28

_urga wrote: post #7

I would much prefer a new browser that makes true native web apps possible with a one-click install to indicate trust. A browser built with Electron that exposes Node.js and otherwise keeps away from the HTML5 kitchen sink, in order to push innovation away from the spec committees and back out to the community. Vital technology like TCP, UDP, DNS, and the filesystem is being locked up behind a fascade of poorly imple…

Are you aware of any existing, serious effort to build such a thing? I love the idea - and it strongly appeals to me as a developer - but what would make the average user switch to it?

> Are you aware of any existing, serious effort to build such a thing?

NaCl (>90% of native performence) comes to mind. Too bad NaCl apps can only be downloaded via chrome web store not by visiting url like PNaCl (~10% of native performence).

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#186

Post by athenot » Wed, Jan 20, 2016, 5:17 PM UTC

tamana wrote: post #139

RodericDay wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't emphasize this enough. Every time someone rattles out a list of "annoyances" regarding ads, I wish that I could plead with them to consider that there's even bigger reasons. Plenty of people try to sell the idea that ads let us have content "for free", and that all we have to tolerate is "a little annoyance". It's insane. If companies are buying ad-space, it's because they expect to get more business in retur…

The yellow pages (remember that old book?) is advertising. Is that coercive?

Yes when you open it to look for a plumber and see an ad for a pressure-washing service. You were happy with your driveway but now feels it needs something else.

At least with the yellow pages, we were able to close the book once done. With the web, it's anywhere, all the time and with machine learning to make it adjust in real time to your preferences.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#187

Post by lotharbot » Wed, Jan 20, 2016, 5:17 PM UTC

lsc wrote: post #62

jacquesm wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Times have changed since then and it definitely would not be the first time that something that fell flat out of the gate the first time became a success the second time around. Lots of current successes are actually just warmed over past failures. That's not proof in any way that this might succeed now but there is something to be said or giving that a shot with the number of eyeballs available today (and the harder…

huh. See, I thought the reason it failed last time,besides fraud[1], was a broader reason - it's the same reason paid surveys aren't worth very much. the idea is that the people you want to advertise to are precisely the people who are willing to trade money for their time; the opposite of the people you get when you pay folks to watch advertising. [1], in 1998, I seem to remember that one of my co-workers had instal…

I had one of those ad-display things installed on my computer in that era. I used the manual controls on my CRT to push the ads off the top of the screen, so I could just see like a 2-pixel-wide edge that showed me the thing was still running.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#188

Post by matthewmacleod » Wed, Jan 20, 2016, 5:18 PM UTC

err4nt wrote: post #93

coldpie wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I loathe Eich as a human being, and was very glad to see him ousted from a leadership position at Mozilla. However, this conversation is about a new company he created, where employees are free to make decisions about whether to join it fully cognizant of any personal issues Eich has with them, unlike the Mozilla position where a homophobe was placed in a position of power above existing employees. While it's fair to…

What makes him a homophobe? All I knew about was a political donation. Homophobe implies a fear or hatred of homosexuals, I haven't seen evidence for that yet. Does this word apply here?

It's really, really difficult to make a coherent argument against equal marriage without being a homophobe. The desire to exclude a group of people from marriage based on their sexuality is pretty inherently a 'hatred' of homosexuals. This is reinforced when the campaign is like the Prop 8 one which—let's not forget—was pretty strongly homophobic, full of 'watch-out-the-gays-are-coming-for-your-children' arguments.

I'd argue that as a result of the above, the act of donating to the Prop 8 campaign is a homophobic act.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#189

Post by pcwalton » Wed, Jan 20, 2016, 5:18 PM UTC

lmm wrote: post #121

strictnein wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bad ideas like Javascript and Mozilla.

I think the web would be much better off without either of those. Without Javascript we would have got real programming languages on the web quicker (maybe tklets would have taken off). Without Mozilla we would have got a sensible box model quicker, a sensible way of embedding audio/video quicker, and more development on the open-source-from-the-ground-up (and, not coincidentally I think, higher quality code) KHTML s…

> Without Javascript we would have got real programming languages on the web quicker (maybe tklets would have taken off).

I can't find information on "tklets", but if you're referring to Tcl, no way. Tcl doesn't even have references. The "everything is a string" model is fine for small programs but is pretty dated; there's a reason why no language since Tcl has adopted it.

> Without Mozilla we would have got a sensible box model quicker

This is silly. CSS1, and its box model, was developed by Håkon Wium Lie and Bert Bos, neither of whom were at Mozilla. -moz-box-sizing has been supported since Firefox 1.

> more development on the open-source-from-the-ground-up (and, not coincidentally I think, higher quality code) KHTML sooner

It's debatable whether KHTML is higher quality code. I'm no fan of XPCOM and XUL, for example, but I equally don't like many of the things WebKit does, like not having a holistic solution for DOM cycle leaks.

Re: Brave: Brendan Eich's clean-ads browser startup

#190

Post by ellyagg » Wed, Jan 20, 2016, 5:18 PM UTC

RodericDay wrote: post #89

jordigh wrote: post #70

I will repeat this one more time, because Eich seems to be missing the point.[1] I don't adblock for privacy, security, or speed. Those are just nice-side effects. I adblock because I do not want to be manipulated into buying things I do not need. I wonder what would happen if, as a society, we said, "enough, no more ads". Would it really be the capitalist apocalypse that the ad industry is trying to make us believe…

I can't emphasize this enough. Every time someone rattles out a list of "annoyances" regarding ads, I wish that I could plead with them to consider that there's even bigger reasons. Plenty of people try to sell the idea that ads let us have content "for free", and that all we have to tolerate is "a little annoyance". It's insane. If companies are buying ad-space, it's because they expect to get more business in retur…

It's not insane. I want to buy things, I'm going to continue to buy things, and advertisements sometimes make me aware of things I want to buy. If you think that's insane, I'm confused about why you're participating on a site that's fundamentally about promoting a culture of entrepreneurial spirit and enterprise, which requires making people aware of new products and services.