Given how dependent php is on hosts to upgrade, and how slow php hosts traditionally move, it would seem that php would benefit from a 7-to-5 transpiler, similar to Babel for JS. Does anything like this exist already?
PHP 7 Released
181–190 of 317 posts
Re: PHP 7 Released
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
> instead of playing to the language's advantages and using light-weight tools and libraries that would allow them to move faster. Depending on what you mean by "move faster", I may have to disagree. Besides a one-off script, I can't envision a scenario where using "tools and libraries" would allow you to move faster than using Laravel. Laravel comes with an unbelievable amount of stuff done for you, right out of the…
Laravel is an excellent Rails clone, but the entire problem with Laravel is that it's a PHP framework. I've been a PHP dev for 15 years and the biggest issue with frameworks in PHP is PHP itself. A request comes in, the PHP process loads up everything, executes the request and tears down...on every single request. In just about every other language, the application boots up, loads everything into RAM and each individ…
> A request comes in, the PHP process loads up everything, executes the request and tears down...on every single request.
It's called the "shared nothing architecture", and its by design. Nothing is shared between requests, so why _not_ tear down?
That model actually has a lot of benefits for web applications (it scales very well), and I consider it one of PHP's strong points.
Re: PHP 7 Released
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
I could've done that but that wouldn't have taught the same things. PDO is awesome but requires deeper level of understanding (for a beginner), which may increase the frustration and may end up returning back to the mysql_query and co. It's easier point to framework that's already using PDO and and making sane defaults and solving bootstrapping problems. Once you've learned bunch of new concepts like ORM in one frame…
> PDO is awesome but requires deeper level of understanding (for a beginner), which may increase the frustration and may end up returning back to the mysql_query and co. Yeah, that's basically why I wrote EasyDB. https://github.com/paragonie/easydb $rows = $db->run('SELECT * FROM comments WHERE blogpostid = ? ORDER BY created ASC', $_GET['blogpostid']); foreach ($rows as $row) { // etc } Teach people to do things thi…
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Re: PHP 7 Released
#184Been learning php on and off for a while, happy to see this release is out. Most likely I will use PHP for my future projects instead of the alternatives.
Languages are learning from each other these days, the new PHP definitely benefited from this trend and is actively evolving itself, which is the major reason I'm to stick with it.
Some PHP developers recommended nodejs over PHP for the future to me, after a few experience I feel PHP may be better for long-term maintenance. Renovation is good, it's just that javascript may have too much of it for me to chew on nowadays.
Wish there will be a light-weight version of PHP, something like micropython or Lua, so I can use it on low-end systems when needed. PHP is still very demanding on resources comparing to other languages, even nodejs can be used on IoT devices with restricted mem/cpu power.
Re: PHP 7 Released
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
Laravel is an excellent Rails clone, but the entire problem with Laravel is that it's a PHP framework. I've been a PHP dev for 15 years and the biggest issue with frameworks in PHP is PHP itself. A request comes in, the PHP process loads up everything, executes the request and tears down...on every single request. In just about every other language, the application boots up, loads everything into RAM and each individ…
> A request comes in, the PHP process loads up everything, executes the request and tears down...on every single request. It's called the "shared nothing architecture", and its by design. Nothing is shared between requests, so why _not_ tear down? That model actually has a lot of benefits for web applications (it scales very well), and I consider it one of PHP's strong points.
I do to, except with heavy frameworks.
Re: PHP 7 Released
#186As a person with more of an ops background can someone explain to me why / when PHP might be a viable language? My experience with hosting PHP apps has historicity been one of fending off security issues and I think that often in the past PHP was often a language for designers that didn't have experienced programming skills, it feels like designers have now shifted to using Node for this?
PHP historically had the advantage of being really easy to program for with limited knowledge, while still being powerful enough to let you evolve from small hobby projects to big enterprise web apps. Python and Ruby became popular for similar reasons, but they were harder to host, so PHP kept an edge. I would say that today go and node.js have similar programmability advantages, as well as eclipsing PHP performance-wise, but as long as they're not universally available from shared web hosts PHP will have a niche.
Re: PHP 7 Released
#187OK, great! Clicking the main page[1], see the top of README: "build error". Wait, what? You just released it, it should definitely work! Clicking that icon[2], checking the failed build[3]: ERROR: no certificate subject alternative name matches requested host name `pear.php.net'. To connect to pear.php.net insecurely, use `--no-check-certificate'. Really? See what's in http://pear.php.net/ > The server running pear.p…
> In 2015? Cool.
Do you actually think there's a point in time where mechanical hard drives are going to last forever? If so I have a bridge to sell you.
Re: PHP 7 Released
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
Please explain why.
Have you ever worked with php? I have only slightly and it was truly horrible. The library is a complete rubbish. You couldn't create worse one if you tried. The language development is bad. Some developers are bad. Many users are bad. Does these points make the language bad? Yes. New features are incoherent and seemingly random, issues pop in and out (and back in) because tests simply fail, there are unexplainable s…
Your tone is a little off for HN, but some of your points are good.
Re: PHP 7 Released
#189I wish every PHP developer would reread the docs and start using new features available instead of just continuing with what they know already just because it works. And of course if there was any way to remove all those old tutorials out there.
And every php developer would wish that suddenly all php in the world upgrades to v7. We are years away from 7 having a big penetration in the ecosystem. And years more till it hits enterprise.
Isn't that true for users of other major languages either? Java 1.4, Python 2, ES4, etc.
Re: PHP 7 Released
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wordpress alone runs 25%+ of all websites. PHP's time is clearly still now. I probably won't bother with PHP, but it can't hurt to keep my idea of what it's like up to date. It's only technology, no need to be fanatical about it.
Cobol is still in use. That doesn't make it good. PHP is a poorly written language. From comparisons to namespaces to other gotchas, it's just pigs guts. From the ground up, it's a badly designed language. Look up "Fractal of bad design" for a better understanding of why.
The numbers tell a different story. Wordpress powers 25% of the entire web. That is a quarter of the entire internet. It's pretty much your opinion vs the entire internet.
You can see how your opinions come off as ludicrous ?