State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions • Hacker News Board

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#181

Post by jacquesm » Fri, Nov 13, 2015, 11:39 PM UTC

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #153

jacquesm wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which suggests an alternative (partial) solution: make sure that people in general have lots to lose especially those on the fringes of society.

> make sure that people in general have lots to lose especially those on the fringes of society What do you mean by this? It sounds a bit ominous, if you'll pardon me.

There is nothing ominous about it. A person that is happy, has a life and a means of self-support as well as a family is likely not going to be easily turned against society. On the other hand if every door you try to open is closed and you're being pushed into the corner of having 'nothing to lose' then you might be influenced in a negative way. So better to make sure people have plenty to lose.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#182

Post by erispoe » Fri, Nov 13, 2015, 11:39 PM UTC

aikah wrote: post #135

deanCommie wrote: post #111

And here come the "Obviously this is going to happen, France is 10% muslim" posts. If you marginalize people, mistrust them, do not make an effort to integrate them, and make them feel like the only place where they are welcome is segregated communities, don't be surprised when they radicalize. This has happened all throughout history, and will continue without changes. Conservatives scream that Liberals are too soft…

> If you marginalize people, mistrust them, do not make an effort to integrate them, and make them feel like the only place where they are welcome is segregated communities, don't be surprised when they radicalize. This has happened all throughout history, and will continue without changes. @deanCommie Please, stop with the excuses , nobody marginalized anybody. The terrorists are not victims , the islamists are not…

These are not excuses, these are explanations. Because we need to understand how to defuse radicalization.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#183

Post by CountSessine » Fri, Nov 13, 2015, 11:39 PM UTC

fukusa wrote: post #137

a3voices wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there were no Muslims, there would be almost no terror attacks. Conversely, if there were more Muslims, there would be more terror attacks.

Or could it be that they are just completely desperate brainwashed youth rejected by society? Makes more sense.

Makes more sense.

To whom - you? Based on what? Logic? You've made no argument. Based on an untested model of psychology bouncing around in your head?

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#184

Post by koenigdavidmj » Fri, Nov 13, 2015, 11:39 PM UTC

blackBar wrote: post #116

jacquesm wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes.

Kind of annoying. Without proper context, it just gives the impression that someone left a stray artifact in a recent commit that got deployed accidentally.

Those of us who have been here for a while understand it.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#185

Post by zxcvcxz » Fri, Nov 13, 2015, 11:40 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #125

Disappointed to see the comments downplaying the situation because as many people get killed in car accidents every week or whatever. Terrorist acts damage the social fabric far beyond the death toll. That's the whole point of terrorism.

While this is a horrible attack, they are completely right. Terrorism is not something that is happening everywhere and when we let our selves succumb to fear we risk over-reacting. The reason so many terrorists exist is in large part due to Western intervention.

I think a lot of people are afraid that these incidents will lead to more wars in the Middle East, create more terrorists, and cause more attacks. This will further erode our fourth amendment freedoms and probably the second too, which is exactly what the terrorists want.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#186

Post by rtpg » Fri, Nov 13, 2015, 11:40 PM UTC

aikah wrote: post #135

deanCommie wrote: post #111

And here come the "Obviously this is going to happen, France is 10% muslim" posts. If you marginalize people, mistrust them, do not make an effort to integrate them, and make them feel like the only place where they are welcome is segregated communities, don't be surprised when they radicalize. This has happened all throughout history, and will continue without changes. Conservatives scream that Liberals are too soft…

> If you marginalize people, mistrust them, do not make an effort to integrate them, and make them feel like the only place where they are welcome is segregated communities, don't be surprised when they radicalize. This has happened all throughout history, and will continue without changes. @deanCommie Please, stop with the excuses , nobody marginalized anybody. The terrorists are not victims , the islamists are not…

>The wide majority of muslims in France are integrated

Sooooo many studies have been done where the same resume gets shown to recruiters, except one has a French name and the other has an Arabic name. The results were an overwhelming amount of french resumes were chosen over the Arabic one. Not to mention constant issues like police harassment

The issue of integration of purely the fault of a country that pretends that race doesn't matter while simultaneously punishing minorities every step of the way

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#187

Post by arcticfox » Fri, Nov 13, 2015, 11:40 PM UTC

ju-st wrote: post #150

deanCommie wrote: post #111

And here come the "Obviously this is going to happen, France is 10% muslim" posts. If you marginalize people, mistrust them, do not make an effort to integrate them, and make them feel like the only place where they are welcome is segregated communities, don't be surprised when they radicalize. This has happened all throughout history, and will continue without changes. Conservatives scream that Liberals are too soft…

It is imho already absolutely ridiculous that everyone here is already acusing French muslims or refugees.

There is an overwhelming likelihood that this is an attack by radical Islamists. From a purely rational probabilistic perspective, it's not ridiculous at all.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#188

Post by fukusa » Fri, Nov 13, 2015, 11:40 PM UTC

flyinglizard wrote: post #143

fukusa wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why didn't the NSA report this suspicious activity to the French authorities?

Who said they haven't and who said such acts weren't foiled by intelligence agencies before?

Well if they have reported it, why did it still happen? You are asking me to prove that the NSA hasn't foiled any attacks instead of asking the agency conducting mass surveillance to provide evidence? Just to give you an idea most terrorist attacks on US soil, foiled or not, have been directed by the FBI. Source is The Intercept.

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#189

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Nov 13, 2015, 11:40 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #181

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> make sure that people in general have lots to lose especially those on the fringes of society What do you mean by this? It sounds a bit ominous, if you'll pardon me.

There is nothing ominous about it. A person that is happy, has a life and a means of self-support as well as a family is likely not going to be easily turned against society. On the other hand if every door you try to open is closed and you're being pushed into the corner of having 'nothing to lose' then you might be influenced in a negative way. So better to make sure people have plenty to lose.

[deleted]

Re: State of emergency declared across France after Paris shootings and explosions

#190

Post by voynich61 » Fri, Nov 13, 2015, 11:40 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #125

Disappointed to see the comments downplaying the situation because as many people get killed in car accidents every week or whatever. Terrorist acts damage the social fabric far beyond the death toll. That's the whole point of terrorism.

Only because people like you seem to think it's such a big deal. If people were to look at it as it is and comprehend the scope of the matter, it wouldn't damage the social fabric.