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Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

greenbuildingadvisor.com

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Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#181

Post by everyone »

bsder wrote: post #160
everyone wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was a good article but I think the authors assignment of blame is misplaced. In my opinion the reason contemporary brick construction is not up to par with 100 year old brick construction is the same reason contemporary washing machines are not up to the standard of washing machines 100 years ago: The emphasis in making things now is on speed and cheapness, the emphasis 100 years ago was on quality. The college…

> the emphasis 100 years ago was on quality I would argue that the emphasis was on "repairability".

Hm, I'd say both but quality first. The engineers aim was to make something that would last forever, the goal was that nothing would go wrong with it, but inevitably over the years something would and in that case it'd better be convenient to repair as the its so damn expensive you cant just buy another.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#182

Post by matheweis »

Spooky23 wrote: post #107
Retric wrote: post #10

Survivorship bias is a really important caveat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias Many cheap brick buildings from 100 years ago are gone, where the high quality ones are more likely to remain. Also, steel Lintel are often used over windows in brick buildings. They don't last as long, but are fine for cheap construction that is not expected to last. AKA the kinds of building that are unlikely to be aroun…

No way. Talk to anyone involved in construction. Every component in a building today save plumbling, windows and electric is inferior to its complement in 1915. The bricks are of lower quality (to the point there is a thriving market for used bricks), the wood is garbage, and quality of labor has shifted from skilled craftsmanship to glorified assembly work. My home was built in 1927 as a cheap starter home (upstairs…

This. Mine was built in 1964.

The entire floor both upstairs and down is tongue and groove 2x6 planking... vs today's 3/4" OSB.

For being over 50 years old, the "skeleton" is in outstanding condition. There are some very minor foundation issues that I've been slowly fixing with a little elbow grease, and that's about it.

If the drywall and electrical were redone, this thing would be in better condition/quality than a large percentage of BRAND NEW homes on the market today.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#184

Post by applecore »

sitkack wrote: post #105
marincounty wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People used to be able to repair old appliances. Now, they basically last two years(durable good), and we throw it out. I'll take repairability, over modern, in appliances, and even automobiles. I used to be able to fix my appliances; I just throw them away now. I wonder what the net cost is to the enviornment? I currently have a dryer that never stops beeping. A washer that never really cleaned clothes, but only use…

I was renting a place that had a washer and dryer set from the early 60s. It worked wonderfully, until one day the washer wouldn't cycle properly. I tore it apart and there was a stack of plastic gears that ran the state machine for the various cycles, one them was worn. I didn't have the means in 2000 to disassemble the gear pack and a replacement couldn't be found and god I tried. The land lords endedup scrapping b…

The future is owning a state-of-the-art 3D printer to produce the small plastic part for your sixty-year-old washing machine.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#185

Post by nikatwork »

redcalx wrote: post #104
nikatwork wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

7' is accurate for many new Housing Estate houses eg AV Jennings. The buildings all look similar except for roof color. It's very disorientating. My house is 1860s with a 12' ceiling. Those other places feel like claustrophobic rabbit holes in comparison. Low ceilings minimize material costs and maximize profits.

> Low ceilings minimize material costs and maximize profits. They also minimise heat loss, which is strictly regulated in the UK. Hence that other annoying feature of many modern build - tiny windows.

Mate, this is bloody Oz. It hit nearly 46C (114F) last year in my city. Last thing I'm trying to do is minimize heat loss.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#186

Post by spronkey »

rsync wrote: post #173
bitanarch wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're talking about the Bay Area - then there's good reason why buildings are wood framed and light weight. Wood frame construction is generally more earthquake resistant. http://timber.ce.wsu.edu/Resources/papers/4-3-2.pdf However, if you're not in an earthquake-prone area... then I agree I'd prefer to have a more solid construction.

True, but a wood frame doesn't have to imply stick-built, green and wet 2x4 construction. Even in modern times where big timbers are scarce, you can still get straight, true, kiln-dried douglas fir in large (8x8, 8x12) sizes relatively cheaply.

I think one of the issues with the better woods in particular is sustainability of growth. Basically every house built today in NZ will be using Pinus Radiata, which is a less dense wood that grows very very quickly, and is very sustainable. In the past, e.g. 1960 and earlier, houses used Rimu, and potentially Kauri - both of which are very hard, very dense woods that will test even the best drill bits - but they're not sustainable.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#187

Post by robbrown451 »

pbreit wrote: post #170

Here's another question: why is the architecture in San Francisco so awful? I would take cruddy brick over hideous paneling any day.

What architecture are you speaking of? Wood buildings like the very common Victorians? I don't know what you mean by "hideous paneling," but of the many places I've lived, San Francisco has the most beautiful/interesting architecture. I grew up in a brick house on the east coast, and I find that sort of architecture drab comparatively.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#188

Post by bhuga »

old-gregg wrote: post #109

The quality of modern construction (not necessarily brick) is a big pet peeve of mine and something I keep looking for answers. The way I see it, some time right after WWII, people in US suddenly decided to live in a poorly built and ugly looking dwellings regardless of their income level. It is especially easy to see when looking at NYC buildings, some rentals are even explicitly advertized as "pre-war". Examples of…

If you've ever worked in residential construction, there's one constant truth: everything you make will be redesigned away before it fails. Our desire for novelty is strong, and cheap construction lets us reconfigure houses affordably in ways that old, stronger construction didn't. Someone will want a new countertop because it looks pretty long before the old one will break, and the same goes for closet space and windows.

That's no explanation for situation in the article, of course. One would expect that structural elements of large, dramatic investments of that sort would take proper care to last. But drywall-on-sticks is an economic reality that makes sense.

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#189

Post by dfc »

Spooky23 wrote: post #107
Retric wrote: post #10

Survivorship bias is a really important caveat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias Many cheap brick buildings from 100 years ago are gone, where the high quality ones are more likely to remain. Also, steel Lintel are often used over windows in brick buildings. They don't last as long, but are fine for cheap construction that is not expected to last. AKA the kinds of building that are unlikely to be aroun…

No way. Talk to anyone involved in construction. Every component in a building today save plumbling, windows and electric is inferior to its complement in 1915. The bricks are of lower quality (to the point there is a thriving market for used bricks), the wood is garbage, and quality of labor has shifted from skilled craftsmanship to glorified assembly work. My home was built in 1927 as a cheap starter home (upstairs…

> Talk to anyone involved in construction.

I am going to take a guess and say that we are not reading a commented written by someone involved in construction. HVAC anything? I'd love to see you sell a house for 750k with asbestos wrapped around all the vents. Vermiculite versus blown in closed cell poly? Poly versus waxed floors? LVLs? Exterior fasteners? Lead paint? Can you imagine how much longer this list would be if I was not content to stick to residential construction?

I could go on and on. TLDR Housing materials have significantly improved since Calvin Coolidge's time. Oh yeah, I forgot Contruction Adhesives...

Re: Why has the quality of brick buildings declined in the last 100 years?

#190

Post by pcurve »

ealexhudson wrote: post #39
Retric wrote: post #10

Survivorship bias is a really important caveat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias Many cheap brick buildings from 100 years ago are gone, where the high quality ones are more likely to remain. Also, steel Lintel are often used over windows in brick buildings. They don't last as long, but are fine for cheap construction that is not expected to last. AKA the kinds of building that are unlikely to be aroun…

My last house was built in ~1936. It was cheap for the time, but the entire estate of houses it sat in was complete - virtually nothing had been removed. The form of the buildings had changed somewhat (extension for bathroom instead of toilet in the garden), but the brick walls were incredible and the internal timberwork (joists, frames, etc.) was all hardwood of a quality that would be very expensive now. My current…

I laughed at this post because my current home is all brick house built in 1930s, with a brick extension built in 1980s.

An inspector said, "those are very good bricks from the 30s. They don't make bricks that strong anymore"

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