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Study: Some car models consuming around 50% more fuel than official results

transportenvironment.org

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Re: Study: Some car models consuming around 50% more fuel than official results

#181

Post by aaronbrethorst »

JonFish85 wrote: post #173
JustSomeNobody wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming wrongdoing: GM will get another pass because it is "too big to fail." This has to stop. Execs need to start going to prison.

You're also assuming that execs necessarily knew about everything. There's a reasonable chance that the execs set the targets and feed it to the middle managers who pass it along to teams. Somewhere along the line I imagine there are those who are terrified of missing those targets and perhaps losing their jobs and resort to bending the rules a bit to hit their goals. And there's a very good chance that these people…

Put fear of prison into the people at the top and they'll find a way to prevent this, or subprimes, or—hell—Enron from ever happening again. The buck has to stop somewhere[1]

[1] interestingly, this is apparently a misuse of the phrase as Truman used it. But popular usage, etc. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2012/10/buck-stops-here...

Re: Study: Some car models consuming around 50% more fuel than official results

#182

Post by maxerickson »

tremon wrote: post #152
Zelphyr wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to share some of those tips?

This is by no means an exhaustive list, nor an authoritative one. Would love to hear other's thoughts on these: - When accelerating, try not to over-extend the throttle. If the engine is at 2k rpm, you get just as much acceleration from 30% throttle as 100%, at half the fuel cost. - Release the throttle well before you reach a traffic light/stop sign. Deceleration by engine will cause a smoother stop and gives the tr…

On a fuel injected engine, the gas pedal is a power requester more than it is a throttle control. The ECU won't inject excess fuel.

At least some manuals with EFI also have power governing to protect the transmission.

Re: Study: Some car models consuming around 50% more fuel than official results

#183

Post by brianbreslin »

This is totally anecdotal, but relevant. I installed the automatic.com car monitoring app/dongle to see how my last car (2013 ford escape ecoboost 2.0L) was performing vs the advertised rates. I drove consistently at a 95-97 score rating for efficiency, and never averaged over 16mpg despite the car being advertised as 23mpg city. Highway driving was different (i got 29.5mpg vs 31mpg advertised). I questioned ford about this and they blamed my city driving on "short trips where the car didn't heat up enough to be efficient". Either way, I was not pleased. My current car (Lexus NX200T 2015) gets 21mpg city 29 hwy within 1-2mpg of what was advertised. My driving patterns haven't changed.

Re: Study: Some car models consuming around 50% more fuel than official results

#184

Post by r00fus »

JonFish85 wrote: post #173
JustSomeNobody wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming wrongdoing: GM will get another pass because it is "too big to fail." This has to stop. Execs need to start going to prison.

You're also assuming that execs necessarily knew about everything. There's a reasonable chance that the execs set the targets and feed it to the middle managers who pass it along to teams. Somewhere along the line I imagine there are those who are terrified of missing those targets and perhaps losing their jobs and resort to bending the rules a bit to hit their goals. And there's a very good chance that these people…

Well, if the trickle-down theory says that execs and management get the most shares of profit trickling down, maybe the punishments should flow the same way...?

Re: Study: Some car models consuming around 50% more fuel than official results

#185

Post by eveningcoffee »

vonmoltke wrote: post #158
emp_zealoth wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe we abolish nonsensical, contrary requirements? Whoever actaully believed the fuel consumption figures is a fool. You cant have a 1,5t of a car and expect it to use only 5l/100km. That's a good rate for a goddamn motorbike (450ccm,one piston, dont exceed 90 km/h and you might reach 4,5l/100km) Its one fifth of the mass...

> You cant have a 1,5t of a car and expect it to use only 5l/100km So you are telling me that my actual, measured fuel consumption numbers of 4.25l/100km on flat highways in the US South are impossible? I have a diesel Passat (yes, one of the NOx Boxes :P) and can get from Dallas, TX to Pensacola, FL (650 mi) without refueling and with a decent reserve (~2 gallons) still in the tank.

The thing is that this report does actually not provide any data about fuel consumption - only about CO2 emissions.

What they do is wild speculation and possibly a smear campaign because people care more about the fuel economy (their own money) than CO2 emissions.

It is interesting that this (some) data is provided but how it is presented does not make it look very credible.

Re: Study: Some car models consuming around 50% more fuel than official results

#186

Post by edw519 »

"Miles Per Gallon" is poor metric for reducing consumption.

"Gallons Per Year" would be much better.

Move closer to work, carpool, take public transport, ride a bike, work remotely. Benefits from these things would dwarf any incremental improvements from EPA ratings.

Re: Study: Some car models consuming around 50% more fuel than official results

#187

Post by emp_zealoth »

JonFish85 wrote: post #173
JustSomeNobody wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming wrongdoing: GM will get another pass because it is "too big to fail." This has to stop. Execs need to start going to prison.

You're also assuming that execs necessarily knew about everything. There's a reasonable chance that the execs set the targets and feed it to the middle managers who pass it along to teams. Somewhere along the line I imagine there are those who are terrified of missing those targets and perhaps losing their jobs and resort to bending the rules a bit to hit their goals. And there's a very good chance that these people…

Isnt a CEO job to, well, lead? They certainly get a lot of monies for what they do.

Maybe if some of them got hit with actual penalty, the rest would learn to pay attention? I dont understand the apologetic attitude.

Re: Study: Some car models consuming around 50% more fuel than official results

#188

Post by happyscrappy »

padelt wrote: post #11
happyscrappy wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe was really led astray when they were told that diesels were better for the environment, hybrids would have been the way to go.

> Europe was really led astray when they were told that diesels were better for the environment Were we led astray? Or are we discussing the last few percentages beyond an actual advantage over gasoline engines?

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/sep/24/uk-france...

Re: Study: Some car models consuming around 50% more fuel than official results

#189

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

saint_fiasco wrote: post #117
wellboy wrote: post #61

Reminds of the cycling world. Boundaries are pushed with doping and in order to stay competitive, after a while everyone is doping until the whole thing collapses. The same thing goes for bodybuilding, anyone has another example?

Capitalism. One of the Marxist critiques of capitalism is that if an employer wants to do certain good things (like treat his workers well, pay more salaries than the bare minimum, take care of the environment and so on) he can't do that because that will raise the price of whatever he is selling and he would be outcompeted by his less altruistic rivals and go bankrupt. So every business owner has to be a bit of a ps…

Cliffbar lavishes perks on their employees and they seem to get by selling commodity food products. The problem is when the people at the top take everything for themselves and leave nothing behind. Issuing public stock induces the worst of this sort of behavior due to the need to market the company to investors on the single line item of profitability.

Re: Study: Some car models consuming around 50% more fuel than official results

#190

Post by btilly »

lucaspiller wrote: post #172
kwelstr wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And when in the highway don't go too fast, speed increases drag etc. etc.

I did some tests on a long drive last week, for the Smart Forfour I had this was the fuel consumption. It was all along flat, straight parts of the highway. Reports were based upon the cars own fuel efficiency monitor. - 135 km/h 7.8l/100km (30 mpg) - 125 km/h 6.5l/100km (36 mpg) - 115 km/h 5.4l/100km (43 mpg) I never realised speed made such a difference! (Mpg is US gallons)

The reason why it matters is that air resistance is proportional to the square of your velocity. At high speeds that term dominates.
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