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Dropbox has open-sourced Zulip

zulip.org

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Re: Dropbox has open-sourced Zulip

#181

Post by SwellJoe »

it33 wrote: post #164
SwellJoe wrote: post #10

I was just about to try out Mattermost for our company communications. It integrates with a few things including gitlab, but Zulip seems to have a larger number of integration options, which is awesome. Anybody tried both and have thoughts on them? I still prefer to host my own infrastructure, and I want to be able to archive and categorize a discussion (after it's happened) for searchability, but a couple of our peo…

Hi SwellJoe, Mattermost team here. We've had requests for XMPP, and potentially it can be added in future. Feature idea can be tracked here (and more ideas welcome!): http://mattermost.uservoice.com/forums/306457-general/sugges... That said, communication has changed significantly since the XMPP standard. For example, after we implemented markdown in Mattermost it's really hard to go back ( http://www.mattermost.org/…

In doing research today I see some valid reasons for not going XMPP. The question that raises for me is merely: How do these things interoperate going forward? I'm through with walled gardens, particularly with something as important as team communications. If not XMPP, then what needs to happen to allow any chat to federate with any other chat? And, perhaps equally important, how does one move data from one to another. Data lock-in should be on everyone's mind, but it always seems to be an afterthought (so far after that it doesn't come up until the disastrous occurs and your vendor sells out and closes up shop, or becomes like SourceForge and destroys user trust).

I don't mean to rant at you, of course. Mattermost looks great and it is open source, which means any complaints I have, I am free to put my money/time where my mouth is and fix it.

Re: Dropbox has open-sourced Zulip

#182

Post by spb »

tabbott wrote: post #28
themodelplumber wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would nice if it were easier to self-host. Requiring Ubuntu 14.04 with 2GB RAM minimum...not terrible, but could point at a lot of work to be done to broaden the appeal. (Edit: And of course, a thank you to Dropbox for releasing it, this does look like a nice little setup)

Zulip doesn't have a strong dependency on Ubuntu 14.04. It would be less than a day's work to have it support any additional version of Debian or Ubuntu (precise/wheezy would be quite easy since we've run both in production). It's probably also not hard to support something RHEL-based too but that'd be a bit more work. RAM usage could also be brought down a lot for smaller environments with a bit of work; most of it…

>we run a set of like 15 queue processing workers that each import the entire application

Where would one start if they were looking to disable that?

Re: Dropbox has open-sourced Zulip

#183

Post by latch »

tracker1 wrote: post #161
tabbott wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zulip use RabbitMQ for passing messages where persistence is desired; last I checked Redis didn't support persistent on-disk queues. Zulip's use of redis right now is basically just for the API rate-limiting; it could be easily removed.

Redis does have persistence options... I was just thinking Redis is often used as a more advanced memcached, while also supporting pub/sub channels and acting as a mq broker with a frontend... was just thinking in terms of reducing the requisite services, since rabbitmq requires erlang and it's own services as well as memcached. http://redis.io/topics/persistence http://python-rq.org/

In fairness, your parent introduced the word "persistence" to this discussion, but I think you're misunderstanding queues if you think the two are interchangeable.

Two things you often want are at-least-once delivery and the ability to queue messages without requiring the consumer to be connected. It requires a fair amount of work to get this to work in Redis. It's not simple configuration.

Re: Dropbox has open-sourced Zulip

#184

Post by tabbott »

sinak wrote: post #146
tabbott wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are two approaches one could take for doing this: * It seems like one way you could make that possible would be to make it really easy to do white-label builds of the Zulip mobile apps. E.g. the "Zulip for example.com" app. Would be more overhead than is ideal for smaller deployments. * It should be possible to have APNS/GCM traffic go through a central community-hosted service that dispatches the messa…

Hey tabbott, I'd love to chat about this more if you're interested, it's something we've been particularly looking for. My email is sina@eff.org. White-label builds of Zulip apps would work, but at least in our case wouldn't be ideal. Having a central community-hosted service would be much better.

Sounds good, pinged you off-thread.

Re: Dropbox has open-sourced Zulip

#185

Post by lstamour »

scrollaway wrote: post #102
fletchowns wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who might be the right entity to take on creating a replacement for XMPP?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ One of the best things that could happen today I think is Google open sourcing the Hangouts protocol. It's a reasonable alternative to XMPP and has a massive userbase. The clients are pretty horrible but that might be completely unrelated to how good the protocol is (Note: I have no idea how good it is. Because it's closed source.). I was hopeful for a while but I don't really see it happening anymore :( Oh…

Identity is a separate problem. So far, https://www.accountchooser.com and OpenID is winning -- if by winning you mean maintaining a list of very popular email providers and using their APIs. ;-)

Re: Dropbox has open-sourced Zulip

#186

Post by stevemartingale »

ex3ndr wrote: post #119
tbingmann wrote: post #8

Slack, Zulip, this feels like we are back in 1999, when the internet was divided by ICQ, AOL Instant Messanger, Windows Live Messanger, and Yahoo Messanger. (Instant/Live was a plus back then). And the only innovation over IRC was a backlog and buddy list. I wonder when the Trillian of Slack+Zulip will come out. I hope Trillian (which still exists) is already working on it.

We ( https://actor.im ) are actually working on this, but not trying to connect slack, but building telegram, skype, whatsapp, social networks to one, slack like interface that will help you easily manage communications from many networks. This is not our main feature, just something like side project.

This looks cool.

FYI notifications is misspelled as "notificaitons" in the paragraph under "I don't believe in messaging. Email is better".

Re: Dropbox has open-sourced Zulip

#187

Post by StavrosK »

scrollaway wrote: post #102
fletchowns wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who might be the right entity to take on creating a replacement for XMPP?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ One of the best things that could happen today I think is Google open sourcing the Hangouts protocol. It's a reasonable alternative to XMPP and has a massive userbase. The clients are pretty horrible but that might be completely unrelated to how good the protocol is (Note: I have no idea how good it is. Because it's closed source.). I was hopeful for a while but I don't really see it happening anymore :( Oh…

I will forever mourn and be angered by Mozilla giving up on Persona so easily.

Re: Dropbox has open-sourced Zulip

#188

Post by ex3ndr »

zobzu wrote: post #133
ex3ndr wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We ( https://actor.im ) are actually working on this, but not trying to connect slack, but building telegram, skype, whatsapp, social networks to one, slack like interface that will help you easily manage communications from many networks. This is not our main feature, just something like side project.

that would be great. what would be greater though is ensuring that actor.im cannot read the data as it transits (or easy to setup on our own local machines) I'd pay a good bit for that!

We had e2e encryption in the past, but we decided to make one click install of your own server or may be just key infrastructure to make everything cool.

Re: Dropbox has open-sourced Zulip

#189

Post by istvan__ »

tbingmann wrote: post #8

Slack, Zulip, this feels like we are back in 1999, when the internet was divided by ICQ, AOL Instant Messanger, Windows Live Messanger, and Yahoo Messanger. (Instant/Live was a plus back then). And the only innovation over IRC was a backlog and buddy list. I wonder when the Trillian of Slack+Zulip will come out. I hope Trillian (which still exists) is already working on it.

Amazon for a long time (maybe even today) used IRC for 1:N communication. I personally like IRC over anything else, but I am probably just too old... :)

Re: Dropbox has open-sourced Zulip

#190

Post by ocdtrekkie »

scrollaway wrote: post #102
fletchowns wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who might be the right entity to take on creating a replacement for XMPP?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ One of the best things that could happen today I think is Google open sourcing the Hangouts protocol. It's a reasonable alternative to XMPP and has a massive userbase. The clients are pretty horrible but that might be completely unrelated to how good the protocol is (Note: I have no idea how good it is. Because it's closed source.). I was hopeful for a while but I don't really see it happening anymore :( Oh…

Yeah, I can't see Google ever either open sourcing Hangouts, or making it possible to federate it. Google's opinion seems to be that everything that is a service or protocol should be a Google API.
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