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Facebook’s Piracy Problem

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Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#171
post #32
post #22

This should be a fairly open and shut piracy case for the video maker. Zoo is a British magazine with a real company behind it. Facebook is a US-based company and is redistributing the video (and likely making money from the adverts). The video maker is based in the US. He can start with filing a case against FB (seems he has a US lawyer lined up already), and once he collects from that, he pays a UK lawyer to follow…

Wouldn't DMCA protect Facebook from legal action here?

Yes and no. Facebook can be forced to take down the content (this is the purpose of DMCA takedowns), so they are not protected from that. As for damages, no - you have to go after the person who posted it, in this case the scumbag assholes at Zoo.

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#172
post #32
post #22

This should be a fairly open and shut piracy case for the video maker. Zoo is a British magazine with a real company behind it. Facebook is a US-based company and is redistributing the video (and likely making money from the adverts). The video maker is based in the US. He can start with filing a case against FB (seems he has a US lawyer lined up already), and once he collects from that, he pays a UK lawyer to follow…

Wouldn't DMCA protect Facebook from legal action here?

It would if they promptly removed offending content.

I'm not sure what the exact timeline in the DMCA is (72 hours?), but the 17,000,000 views that went by before removal is something... (Not sure where the counter was when the removal request was received.)

Not sure what that status of money made on material you've been told was infringing and haven't taken down is..

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#173

A radical idea: Maybe our model of intellectual property is wrong, or outdated. When IP was tied to a physical object, it made some sense to restrict and explicitly license each reproducer. Now we have incredible machines that can reproduce intellectual property almost infinitely, distribute it anywhere on Earth, and find it almost anywhere on Earth. Wow! Maybe we should embrace that innovation, and find a model that…

How about this:

We let people who do the creating decide if the want to give what they created away for free, or try to make some financial gain from it as permitted by our society's IP protecting statutes?

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#174

A radical idea: Maybe our model of intellectual property is wrong, or outdated. When IP was tied to a physical object, it made some sense to restrict and explicitly license each reproducer. Now we have incredible machines that can reproduce intellectual property almost infinitely, distribute it anywhere on Earth, and find it almost anywhere on Earth. Wow! Maybe we should embrace that innovation, and find a model that…

How about this: We let people who do the creating decide if the want to give what they created away for free, or try to make some financial gain from it as permitted by our society's IP protecting statutes?

Well, that's legally where we are right now.

But we are living in times where IP laws are facing technological problems. For example, no one can copyright a joke and expect to make a fortune off of it, because anyone can hear a joke and repeat it their friends. The joke might reach millions of people, but no one can profit from it. It's unenforceable to limit a joke's distribution. And no one expects to, nor to make a fortune off of a joke. Humans are too good at making copies of jokes.

The same is happening to other media. Anyone can see a clip on YouTube and share it with their friends anywhere else, including Facebook, the topic of this article. With wearable tech, this will get even easier - as easy as repeating a joke, or even easier - just tell your device "record", "stop", and "share". And you've made a copy of anything you can see or hear.

When humans are too good at making copies of anything they can see or hear, the way they already are too good at making copies of jokes, IP law will have to change.

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#175

A radical idea: Maybe our model of intellectual property is wrong, or outdated. When IP was tied to a physical object, it made some sense to restrict and explicitly license each reproducer. Now we have incredible machines that can reproduce intellectual property almost infinitely, distribute it anywhere on Earth, and find it almost anywhere on Earth. Wow! Maybe we should embrace that innovation, and find a model that…

It's possible to argue that it's not necessary to make money from art. It's quite easy to argue against harsh enforcement against p2p noncommercial copying.

But if someone is making money from the material, then the creators should get a cut.

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#176

A radical idea: Maybe our model of intellectual property is wrong, or outdated. When IP was tied to a physical object, it made some sense to restrict and explicitly license each reproducer. Now we have incredible machines that can reproduce intellectual property almost infinitely, distribute it anywhere on Earth, and find it almost anywhere on Earth. Wow! Maybe we should embrace that innovation, and find a model that…

"Now we have incredible machines that can reproduce intellectual property almost infinitely" I think the main problem with this line of thinking is that it takes nothing to reproduce IP, but creating it takes thousands (and sometimes more) man-hours. "A third: Many creative people are motivated to do great things withhout payment. Remember, all those FOSS creators, from RMS to Linus Torvalds to Tim Berners-Lee to eve…

There are strong points, but I feel like they sharpen the details and don't address the main argument. For example, it's true there are exceptions regarding income but many haven't cashed in and I doubt Torvalds and Stallman did their creative work, at least initially, looking for a big payoff. And there are many more examples, most scientists for instance.

> With so much free software out there, why would a business want to hire an actual engineer when they can hire a software mechanic (at a much lower wage)? ... Why are we actively trying to take away a very good way for social mobility?

On one hand, that's a very good point. On the other, it's hypocritical for our industry to complain about jobs lost to efficiencies; much of what the IT industry does is replace human labor with computers or 'disrupt' whole industries. That's the 'creative destruction' of the free market, finding more productive solutions and shifting now-unneeded resources to something new. Should we maintain IP barriers so that engineers can be paid to create something that already exists?

> It already happened in the music industry. Before the explosion of piracy, an indy artist could make a living selling music.

Agreed, but before the explosion of recording technology, indie artists made money from performances. The technology changed then, now has changed again, and will change yet again. The business model built on last generation's tech isn't sacrosanct.

I don't mean to be callous about people's jobs or suggest I have the answers, but I think we can do much better than graft the old IP system onto the new technology.

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#177

A radical idea: Maybe our model of intellectual property is wrong, or outdated. When IP was tied to a physical object, it made some sense to restrict and explicitly license each reproducer. Now we have incredible machines that can reproduce intellectual property almost infinitely, distribute it anywhere on Earth, and find it almost anywhere on Earth. Wow! Maybe we should embrace that innovation, and find a model that…

> Yes, motivating creators is a problem, but there are many possible solutions.

As a creator with a day job, money isn't a motivator. But having my name tied to my works certainly is. And for all the programmers you listed it is as well.

The video freebooted by Zoo is a perfect example. They stripped his name and branding from the video and it went more viral as a Zoo video. If this happens regularly, there's literally no incentive to create content and distribute it. In fact it's a big de-motivator.

In the case of the FOSS creators you mentioned, I wonder how motivated they would be if their work could have so easily been entirely re-apropriated by someone else (in total violation of their licenses). If Linus' name and source code wasn't attached to every linux and linux based distribution on earth he would have moved on a long time ago. No one in their right mind would just freely write code and let others take all the credit for it (with no monetary incentive).

So I ask, could you please elaborate on your "many possible solutions"?

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#178
post #83
post #14

Ironically, at the end of the tattoo video that was pirated, Destin Sandlin, the host, is seen wearing [a shirt]( http://www.amazon.com/Stand-Going-Science-T-Shirt-Scientists... ) that is a blatant rip off of an Randall Munroe's (XKCD) [shirt]( http://store-xkcd-com.myshopify.com/products/try-science ).

How is that ironic? Should every consumer be assumed to check the origins of every purchase?

It's ironic regardless of whether Destin's aware. If he is aware, it borders on hypocrisy.

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#179
post #97

I have a friend/acquaintance who had a similar experience on YouTube itself. He had created a large number of instructional videos on his YouTube channel, and from them he was deriving a significant passive income (admittedly from the overbearing amount of ads he enabled). One day he received a takedown notice suggesting that his videos were illicit copies. His investigations led him to believe that another YouTube u…

Sounds like something you solve with the help of a lawyer. I mean, Youtube was serving pirated versions of his videos, refusing to block them, and refusing to attribute credit to him. Youtube was also gaining money from the operation.

Plus, the third party was actually willingly lying about ownership with the sole purpose of profit. That's an even easier case for a lawyer.

Re: Facebook’s Piracy Problem

#180
Let's not pretend YouTube didn't become big by the same way; it was from the start a giant platform for "illegally" sharing copyrighted videos. It got better in this regard lately but the fact that it was full of copyrighted stuff helped them bootstrap.
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