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ADP Sues Zenefits for Defamation

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Re: ADP Sues Zenefits for Defamation

#171
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll grant you that it showed poor judgment if he really thought he could stay anonymous. That said, I disagree with basically everything else. I think you're reading way too much into that. Where you work will have an impact on your career (I think that's obvious). Part of that is simply the social proof of which company. It helped my career by working for various YC companies, for instance. Were they necessarily be…

> Do you maybe think you shouldn't hold it against him that maybe he also doesn't know everything? The problem isn't that he doesn't understand everything. The problem is that he doesn't seem to understand "discretion". I'm about to give someone access to very sensitive HR information across multiple companies. Do I really want to do that when he just demonstrated that he can't make a simple job inquiry with enough d…

Sure, he could certainly say that posting about this was an instance of a lack of discretion (hopefully not on quora itself), but that isn't what he said and what he DID say would certainly be a bit of the pot calling the kettle black with regards to discretion, wouldn't it?

Edit: I still contend you're making a mountain out of a molehill. This kid asked a reasonable questionable in an unreasonable way. He could've avoided a lot by simply redacting the names of the companies; I think we both agree on that. That said, I kind of expect a kid fresh out of college to make a few mistakes with regards to professionalism. An organization hiring those individuals should be set up to mitigate that damage and gently steer them in the right direction, not crucify them publicly. While I expect the occasional flub of professionalism from new employees (and I think on a scale of unprofessionalism, this ranks pretty low), I expect a great deal more from CEOs of corporations with a valuation in the billions. Both messed up with regards to professionalism, but one made a much bigger screw up, and it was the one who I would most expect to behave professionally.

Re: ADP Sues Zenefits for Defamation

#172
post #90

I feel like Zenefits is becoming a case study in everything you don't do when you enter an industry. We'll be switching away because I'm worried who else they won't play nice with in the future. Uber and AirBNB have scared the heck out of huge incumbent industries and cities/governments and had scraps to be sure. But they don't have the consistent missteps as Zenefits. They know when to fight and when to take a lump…

> Uber and AirBNB have scared the heck out of huge incumbent industries and cities/governments and had scraps to be sure. But they don't have the consistent missteps as Zenefits. I feel like AirBnB, and even more so Uber, have had plenty of very public missteps. Both Uber's CEO and execs have come under fire for some dumb things they've said: http://pando.com/2014/02/27/we-call-that-boob-er-the-four-mo... http://www.…

On the topic of that first link, the 'boob-er' story was most likely fabricated. There is no evidence of an interview nor a transcript.

Re: ADP Sues Zenefits for Defamation

#173
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would have shared publicly that you are revoking someones employment offer because you found them seeking career advice on a Q&A board?

This one is kind of tough. I'd like to think that I'd be better than the Zenefits CEO, but, man, this kid makes it really hard to take his side. First, it shows really poor judgment on the part of the junior engineer. Dear God, did you think that people can't identify you , specifically? It's not like Zenefits is giving out 10 job offers a day. Second, you're likely to jump as soon as you get the chance. Neither empl…

> Third, are you going to air dirty laundry in public?

Zenefits doesn't have an issue with sharing private information with the public.

> However, this kid should consider himself lucky that the CEO called him out publicly so he knows what he did wrong.

This person should consider himself lucky that the CEO did this, so he knew the bullet he dodged.

Re: ADP Sues Zenefits for Defamation

#174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? I would have kept my mouth shut and not removed doubt about my foolery.

Why? To preserve my "image" with fickle internet communities full of judgmental people who give me a double standard because my name is known? This is why I'm glad I'm not famous...

Smart people don't want to work for fools.

Re: ADP Sues Zenefits for Defamation

#175
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but I generally also attempt to engage in professional courtesy . And, yes, this goes both ways. If I, as a boss, can see the writing on the wall, I will attempt to protect my employees. While that includes internal protection in a political firefight, it also includes calling up friends at other companies to see if they might have a job for people on my team if I can see that it's going to be ugly. I have also…

If internal, "hidden", policy is different from public, written, policy...the company can go fuck off. Professional courtesy would be telling someone you want/need them for the next X months and making a real commitment to the worker instead of having a public policy of 'no obligations' while secretly expecting the worker to 'be a professional' and to show undue loyalty.

Wow. I hope you never become a manager.

It's called "politics". And it occurs when two or more humans get together. There are always hidden agendas, different goals, etc.

Learning to navigate it is an essential prerequisite if you want to accomplish something that requires more than your singular individual skill.

And, for your information, yes, people like you wind up on the short end of the stick because you ignore politics. People like me get new jobs, better opportunities, advance warning, etc. because I have helped out people in the past. The combinations of being both technically qualified and politically savvy is quite powerful.

You don't owe any loyalty to a company, but if you piss off the people, it will bite you in the ass.

Re: ADP Sues Zenefits for Defamation

#176
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If internal, "hidden", policy is different from public, written, policy...the company can go fuck off. Professional courtesy would be telling someone you want/need them for the next X months and making a real commitment to the worker instead of having a public policy of 'no obligations' while secretly expecting the worker to 'be a professional' and to show undue loyalty.

Wow. I hope you never become a manager. It's called "politics". And it occurs when two or more humans get together. There are always hidden agendas, different goals, etc. Learning to navigate it is an essential prerequisite if you want to accomplish something that requires more than your singular individual skill. And, for your information, yes, people like you wind up on the short end of the stick because you ignore…

The company should correct its image to reflect reality.
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