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6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

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Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#171

Post by BossHogg »

kaa2102 wrote: post #113
contergan wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Are Emily and Greg More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal? That's impossible to say on an individual level, but it is very likely. If you phrase the question differently, there's a pretty clear answer: >On average, are two white people more employable than two black people? Without knowing any further info about the possible candidates - Yes. Looking at education statistics in the US, it becomes clear pretty quickly…

I think you missed the point that the studies actually found that black-sounding names got more callbacks despite having the same credentials, e.g., degree, GPA, etc.

Exactly wrong. They get fewer callbacks.

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#172

Post by foldr »

beachstartup wrote: post #159
vfa33 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutely victim blaming, not just coming close to it. Of all the backwards and ridiculous comments I've seen on race-related threads here, that one is really exceptionally stupid.

there's basically two kinds of people in the world. those that will sit around and mope and moan about how unfair the world is, and invent terms like 'victim blaming'. and those who take concrete, actionable steps to overcome or work around the problem. don't fucking fool yourself, nothing will erase the prejudice against certain names in the next 50 years. just ask any american who isn't white. they've had to deal w…

>nothing will erase the prejudice against certain names in the next 50 years.

Why the pessimism? Race relations have come on a decently long way in the last 50 years.

I don't think anyone's saying that it's wrong for someone to change their name to avoid prejudice. The point is that no-one should be expected to change their name for this reason.

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#173

Post by metamet »

rayiner wrote: post #35

My wife, also from Oregon interestingly enough, has an Irish first name spelled in a "black" way (with a 'w' rather than a 'u'). Every now and then, hilarity ensues when she meets someone in person who was obviously expecting someone who looks different.

Especially if they were expecting a black... uomen.

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#174

Post by cafard »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #136
hyperpape wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps I'm too quick to assume my experience is universal on this point. At school growing up, the white people were fairly mixed in actual ethnic background. Statistically, though, any researcher would consider Italian white if they used "white" as a category. Would it be too personal to ask what she meant? Was she taken for Hispanic, or did people use anti-Italian stereotypes?

The 2nd. She was not welcome everywhere in town; she was viewed with suspicion in stores; her family's social circle was several notches lower than expected from her fathers' position (scientist at Los Alamos Natl Labs).

I'd have supposed Los Alamos, what with the laboratories, to be more cosmopolitan than Denver; yet so far as I know, that didn't happen in Denver. To be sure, I didn't have a particularly elevated social circle, and maybe the people at the Denver Country Club had some issues. But as far as I know, most people in Denver sorted ethnicities into Black/Chicano/Anglo.

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#175

Post by galfarragem »

I am not black but I also know what it is to be discriminated. Most of people know it also, it is nearly impossible to belong always to the dominant/majoritarian group.

I grew up in a low-income suburb. When I went to college I was under estimated and segregated. The poors were, for the first time in my life, a minority. I really know how it feels. But I can also say that whinning about it never made my situation better, almost always made it bitter. Some of the rich, once we got to know eachother, included me in their activities. I believe that this can happen in all majority/minority conflicts if both parts are open minded.

The main problem, as I see it, is that majorities don't want to give in anything, and minorities want majorities to give in everything.

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#176

Post by tyrel »

My name is Tyrel, I run into this a lot of the time as well.

I'm from New Hampshire, which has a very small black population (less than 2% I believe). It was always awkward when girlfriend's parents would make a big deal about "Oh my god you're dating a black man?" when they would tell their parents my name.

Another story is when I was in college, I joined a fraternity. The only black member at the time was disappointed, when we met he said, "Aw man, I thought you were black!"

My last story also is from college. I moved into a dorm where I had a black room mate named Jared. People would confuse him for me, and vice versa, a lot if they hadn't met either of us, but needed something from us. Saying to me "Is Tyrel around? Oh I thought you were Jared..." and the opposite to him I presume.

Over all, I don't have many problems with my name, but I do wish it wasn't people's first impression of me. I try to put my face as my avatar on everything, hoping that people aren't discriminating against my name when they do research on me, but that they discriminate for my abilities.

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#177

Post by stefantalpalaru »

emodendroket wrote: post #163
stefantalpalaru wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you go as far as Proto-Indo-European roots you're in linguistic fantasy territory, but anyway, I was talking about "a word coming straight from the Latin root". It's a clear evolution from the Latin "niger" to Spanish "negro" and illiterate English colonist "nigger". And it kept its meaning of "black" all this time. Since we're talking etymology in the grayed out bottom of a HN thread, did you know that the word…

> Since we're talking etymology in the grayed out bottom of a HN thread, did you know that the word "slave" comes from the Latin "sclavus" that means "Slav" and is therefore offensive to people of Slavic ancestry? Will you stop using it now that you know? I hope not, but it goes to show the absurdity of putting hurt feelings before reason. You're literally arguing against your own reasoning.

"Nigger" is not a terrible word because it means "black" as it always did. "Slave" is not a terrible word because it means "a person that is the property of another" now, even though it meant "Slav" at some point in the past.

BTW, since "literally" became the synonym of its antonym what's the point in using it any more?

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#178

Post by kaa2102 »

BossHogg wrote: post #171
kaa2102 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you missed the point that the studies actually found that black-sounding names got more callbacks despite having the same credentials, e.g., degree, GPA, etc.

Exactly wrong. They get fewer callbacks.

Thanks. I meant to say fewer callbacks.

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#179

Post by likeclockwork »

laichzeit0 wrote: post #157
maxerickson wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The placeholder was chosen in the context of a relatively personal, informal group blog: http://thepoetryquestion.com/about/ If you think your sexist, racist, white male privileged, fat shaming thoughts are important to voice, I don't see why you would worry about them offending someone. The motions of political correctness can go too far, but the basic thought, to consider what words might mean to someone else, is a…

This type of hyped up placeholder is _exactly_ an example of political correctness gone too far. It's exaggeration. My argument is not even against purposefully using words that are offense. It's about how there are so many words that are deemed offensive today that I can't even keep track of what they are. For example, calling one of my own non-homosexual friends a "faggot" or "gay" is offensive. Even though I'm not…

> For example, calling one of my own non-homosexual friends a "faggot" or "gay" is offensive. Even though I'm not homophobic and personally find it to be a funny, playful insult.

Um... if you don't have anything against homosexuality then why would you use it as an insult? How is this logical? It shouldn't have anything to do with "not offending people". The real question is "What are you actually communicating?"

Casual use of slurs shows at least a certain amount of unthinking disdain for others if not actual malice. Censoring referential or quoted uses of slurs may be an over-correction but the intent is not to appear disdainful or malicious.

You can say whatever you want, forget about "political correctness" or "offending someone", but expect people to respond to what you're actually communicating (ignorance and disdain at best).

Re: 6 Words: 'My Name Is Jamaal I'm White'

#180

Post by kaa2102 »

paulhauggis wrote: post #80
kaa2102 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is absolutely unreasonable. When you say it "works out more often than not" I would ask "For whom?" Many snap judgments based on race lead to the death of unarmed black men and women. Studies have shown that resumes with black-sounding names get fewer callbacks and we treat black men like white men with a criminal record. Are Emily and Greg More Employable than Lakisha and Jamal? http://www.nber.org/papers/w9873 N…

Okay, then we need to remove all stereotypes: republicans are rich old men that want to hurt the poor people, religious people don't like gays, anyone that didn't vote for the current president MUST be racist, if something it's written in PHP..it must be terrible because the language is terrible, the police are all racist and want to kill unarmed black men. I could go on. There are plenty of stereotypes and generaliz…

No, the studies showed that black males with NO criminal record were called back at the same rate as white males WITH a criminal record.
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