171–180 of 191 posts
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The problem with senior positions being that older people have usually seen better and saner than you can offer, so your recruit pool is limited to within-industry pouching?
So logically.....if there is less supply for the senior positions and there is a problem filling them, why isn't pay increased for these positions?
And then there's the unspeakables that companies wouldn't tell someone like Jobbox: withholding salaries allows suppresses talk about it and makes it borderline-taboo to talk about in the workplace. This is the status quo for many American companies unfortunately. It's an unfortunate consequence of dealing with a highly individualistic society. You as a person are an asset and you always have to be selling yourself.…
But I see almost nothing written in this whole thread from the perspective of the person who is making more than their coworkers (or believes that to be the case). I don't want to discuss salaries! In fact, one time earlier in my career I was in a group of coworkers who all went around and said their salaries, and mine was 2x all of them, so I kept quiet. My point is just that I don't think it only benefits the emplo…
Do you tell them early to avoid wasting your time?
For myself I'll just say that I've done well since I realized that I should negotiate for EVERY offer I'm given no matter how high. There are no more exploding offers after you've had a couple jobs - we're not in kindergarten and our parents aren't going to take things away because we're acting selfishly.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
But I see almost nothing written in this whole thread from the perspective of the person who is making more than their coworkers (or believes that to be the case). I don't want to discuss salaries! In fact, one time earlier in my career I was in a group of coworkers who all went around and said their salaries, and mine was 2x all of them, so I kept quiet. My point is just that I don't think it only benefits the emplo…
Did you keep quiet because you believed you were being paid unfairly or because you believed THEY were being paid unfairly? If you thought they were underpaid, you were kind of doing them a disservice by keeping quiet. Knowledge of a pay disparity within a group of similar employees tends to help the negotiating power of those who are making less, but does not tend to hurt those who are making more.
Jealousy is real, it will impact your day to day relationships with people.
I don't agree with the assertion that listing filters out candidates on the low end. I think many dillusuonal, overly ambitious, and financially desperate under qualified candidates apply hard for salaries way above their last/current salary.
Correct. There is pretty much no incentive not to try to punch above your weight class. If it was common for employers to list salaries on their job boards, I'd spend an hour each day applying for every job that pays more than I make now. There's literally no down side.
I'm not saying you shouldn't try to better your position, but saying that there isn't a possibility of a downside is not fair.
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I usually follow all of these. The one thing that gets me is when a recruiter calls me up. I usually talk to them because I don't want to be a dick and you never know they my actually be valuable one day. I tell them my salary. "oh well this one pays about 70% of that and it's an 8 month contract. I'd like to put you in for this". I'm not leaving a full time position for a contract position with less pay. I might con…
Either lie about your salary, or give them a higher target. For FTE, I give recruiters a decidedly large number. It's not undoable in this region - I know a few people in that range - but it's generally high enough that they (occasionally) laugh at me. But I did have someone get back and say they could get to about 80% of that, which was a good starting point (ultimately didn't land the position, but probably would h…
You do not have to tell your salary, but lying - is bad for carma.
Telling your salary target is a good idea that saves time for everyone involved, but it should be clearly outlined as a target, not as your current salary.
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Either lie about your salary, or give them a higher target. For FTE, I give recruiters a decidedly large number. It's not undoable in this region - I know a few people in that range - but it's generally high enough that they (occasionally) laugh at me. But I did have someone get back and say they could get to about 80% of that, which was a good starting point (ultimately didn't land the position, but probably would h…
Do NOT lie about your salary. You do not have to tell your salary, but lying - is bad for carma. Telling your salary target is a good idea that saves time for everyone involved, but it should be clearly outlined as a target, not as your current salary.
But... just never bother telling your current salary. It doesn't help you in dealing with recruiters at all.
"$x is what will make me consider a new position" is all you need to say.
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If your company doesn't appreciate enough to pay you market rate unless you explicitly ask for it, you're better off finding a different employer.
I've never, in 15+ years of employment, ever seen a company that will increase your salary simply to square you with market rate. It's always "here's your cost-of-living" increase (which is based on your current salary). Or, "You're doing a good job, here's a raise" (which has nothing to do with market rate). They will, however decrease your salary as market rate goes down.
I really don't understand why companies are so nonchalant about employee retention.
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Did you keep quiet because you believed you were being paid unfairly or because you believed THEY were being paid unfairly? If you thought they were underpaid, you were kind of doing them a disservice by keeping quiet. Knowledge of a pay disparity within a group of similar employees tends to help the negotiating power of those who are making less, but does not tend to hurt those who are making more.
I guess you won't be a fan of this, but I don't really care if I did them a disservice. I hate that engineers do themselves a disservice by not getting the money they can get. Though if it's any consolation, I have started talking to my current coworkers who I know are good and who are not happy with the pay they currently make. I encourage them to get what they can get - but I still don't tell them what I make. Abou…
And I disagree with your assertion that signing on the dotted line instantly makes everything fair. For one, employers have far more data on what they're paying for the position already than any candidate. If both sides don't have the same information, it is not possible for any agreement to be fair.
It could backfire - if I saw a salary stated on a job ad, I would consider it firm. So it it was too low I wouldn't even consider applying, when perhaps they would have been willing to work something out with me if I did.