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Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

theguardian.com

171–180 of 190 posts

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#171
post #49
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What actually happened in the story is Wipro Indian overpaid their employee and when they discovered the error the employee refused to return the money. There are some bad actors here but I found that particular anecdote unconvincing.

Source?

That's funny. Source is TFA!

  He was on the staff of Wipro USA when he worked in the
  United States on a software project for Apple in 2011, for
  roughly $100,000 per year. During a visit to India, he
  continued working on the project.

  When the project was complete, Wipro told Paul that a
  mistake had been made: While he was away, he should have
  been switched to Wipro India for lower Indian wages,
  according to emails Paul shared with CIR.

  A company representative asked him in one email to sign backdated
  agreements and return salary he’d already been paid. When Paul
  refused, he said Wipro withheld pay, benefits and documents he needed
  to maintain his immigration status – and threatened to hold his visa
  hostage.

  “They wanted to take all my salary,” Paul said. “I was forced and
  coerced.”
I've been overpaid by my employer in the past, usually the money just disappears from my account a few days later with no intervention on my part (like a partial ACH reversal). It wasn't my money to begin with, so I had no right to contest it. Even though it was nice to see the extra balance for those few days, it wasn't mine to keep.

If I had transferred the money out such that the reversal was not possible, I'm sure it just would have been withheld from my next check (a.k.a withholding pay/benefits). Now the part about withholding documents sounds illegal, but so is keeping the ill-gotten salary. This of course assumes that Paul was in fact over-paid, which is what TFA says, so safe to assume.

Several of the anecdotes in the story have weird details like this where it's not 100% clear who is screwing who. That does not in any way excuse what some employers are doing.

* s/Indian/India/ in my parent post -- too late to Edit

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#172
post #3

This bullying persists at the bottom of a complex system that supplies workers to some of America’s richest and most successful companies, such as Cisco Systems, Verizon and Apple. I find this extremely confusing, why companies like Facebook and Apple and others in SV, that're sitting on an unbelievable shitload of cash take filthy shortcuts like this, screw the very people that work for them so badly. I mean, seriou…

Why? Because a) it's profitable, and b) they can. That's all, really. Excessive money (== power == domination of your peers) corrupts everybody . We don't need any new studies to prove this. That's the sick part of our economic culture - the "natural" tendency of concentration of money/power (instead of spreading it as equally as possible).

Efficiency. Its not Tim Cook's or any middle manager's personal money, it's the money of the shareholders. Besides, overpaying drives all salaries up and can spark a wage war between companies that only benefits the employees.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relocation expenses are different, and if you're really concerned about it; you are not required to use the relocation benefits. As some supporting evidence that the relocation package is different than wages, wages are taxable and a qualified relocation expense is not.

The end result is that you are on the hook for $10k+ if you decide to quit Microsoft - very similar to the amount charged by Indian outsourcing companies in the article. There are legitimate expenses beyond visa fees that companies incur to import foreign worker and any company will want to be compensated for them if employee quit early.

Owing 10k+ after earning a six figure salary for a year is inconvenient. Owing all the salary you were paid would be catastrophic.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#174

The worst part here is that H1B visas allocated to these scumbag companies end up starving genuine companies of these visas.

Can't agree more. I don't know if it will be viable to insert a clause in H1B terms which severely restricts number of available visas for companies whose sole purpose is staffing. These scumbag companies affect startup eco-system in India too. For many engineers - the only reason to work for these companies is to get into US. They pay shitty salaries back in India, have shitty working conditions. The only reason, I…

> And speaking from experience, many Indians will do anything to get to US.

You can't really blame them can you.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#176
If we have to have these visa programs, the law should be changed to only allow the actual hiring company to contract with the worker, and under no circumstances allow any intermediary to be a go-between. Then at least there can be some kind of tracking instead of everything being hidden behind closed doors.

Of course with our stupid politicians nothing will change except for the worse.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#177
post #135
post #118

At a couple of companies I was at, an Indian jobs shop had somehow gotten their mitts into our HR types and we were indundated with candidates who showed up with books like "Learn Java in 12 hours" or "Windows Device Drivers for N00bs" under their arms. Very junior types, without exception. Our interview questions were fed back, and I had to change them a fair amount. Not a problem. "The guy at XYZZY will ask about h…

I am not sure if your response is relevant to the article, but I felt that there is some level of superiority complex that you and many fellow humans posses (in this case, about your superior knowledge and intellect). Perhaps the biggest difference between you and someone applying for the job through the h1b visa program was that they were born in a different set of circumstances than you were. They were likely born…

"You are welcome to reject him for the job(you can do so at the resume screening state, especially if they don't have the relevant skills and experience) but I think it would be useful to remember that the other person is a human, likely disadvantaged, and express some human empathy."

It is hard to do both when so many of the candidates in question are lying on their resume, lying during the interview, and they are lying to themselves about whether or not they are qualified for the job. Oh, and their recruiter was lying to since before you met them.

You are exhorting greater empathy from one side, while ignoring the entire lack of empathy from the other. Whenever I've seen people do this, it has usually been because they were fostering in-group biases they wouldn't admit to.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#178
The Center for Investigative Reporting did approach me since i am victim of this scam too. I chose to settle out of court sheer out of fear and lack of ideas. As per settlement terms, i am not supposed to talk about this entire episode to anyone ever. But i am still talking here on HN. Back in 2008 I paid $330/hour (10 hours in advance as a retainer) to an attorney to file a response to the legal notice i received. I also paid other damages to my employer totaling $7500. I was literally forced to sign the "binding agreement" which was part of my joining formality after i landed in SF. Had i seen this doc earlier while still in India, chances are i wouldn't have taken that flight. I spent almost a month without pay, medical insurance (in spite of working for the client) but ultimately blinked and signed that document. Its evil. And this ritual is here to stay until the feds really are interested in solving this problem.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If H1Bs were not tied to employers I'm sick and tired of hearing this bullshit repeated over and over again. Let me say this once: H1B workers are not tied down to a particular employer. It used to be the case that the were , but in 2000, Congress passed a law (known as "AC21") which brought job portability for H1B workers. I don't know why I keep hearing people on HN and elsewhere talk as though AC21 never happene…

EDIT: AC21 is for those who are applying for a green card (I-485 pending). How the heck is AC21 even connected to H1B? Source/link please? EDIT2: H1B transfer does not seem to involve AC21. All that happens is that the new employer will need to apply for a H1B petition all over again. So you are simply tied to the new employer, instead of your old employer. http://www.immihelp.com/visas/h1b/h1-transfer.html AC21 is n…

The I-485 AC21 provision is not related to the H1B other than most people affected by it also have H1Bs. However the H1B is pretty portable in practice: even though there is no formal grace period, practically, you have about 3 months to find a job and just do an easy transfer (you get a new I-90) and if it takes more then you might need to leave the country to get a new H1B stamped and receive a new I-90 at the border. Also, the AC21, I believe, allows to start working on H1B as soon as you've filed a reasonable H1B app (provided you are already in the country legally, of course, so it applies mostly to the COS/AOS process).

Source: I had been laid of on H1B twice, one time I started working on the new company immediately after filing the new H1B, the other time I had to wait ~3 months for the application to pass through.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#180
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "For fresh grad though, if they quit earlier than 18 months, they have to pay almost a year of their salary, which seems reasonable when there are trainings when they joined the company." Even by Malaysian standards this is just ridiculous. The tech scene in Malaysia is growing - people really shouldn't have to put up with this nonsense.

Eh, happens even to the best companies in US. Microsoft employment agreement stipulates that if you quit earlier than one year, you have to pay back all relocation expenses (visas, temporary housing, etc). Easily tens of thousands of dollars.

it sounds to me that the relocation money never passes through the employee's hands - microsoft probably deals with relocation vendors directly (most likely have long-standing relationships), and it is not part of your compensation. it's an expense that you may or may not choose to incur, with stipulations.
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