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Bitcoin: the Stripe perspective

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Re: Bitcoin: the Stripe perspective

#171

Post by drusenko »

neom wrote: post #164
drusenko wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how can you make the assumption that "over a very long time the value appreciates consistently"? in fact, one definition of a bubble is when people start to assume that an asset will always appreciate over time...

I don't, I think it's dumb.. but I think that's how people are defining it? I'm no economics major though. Totally ignorant.

Bitcoin has a relatively fixed supply, but that doesn't mean it's guaranteed to appreciate over time.

Bitcoin is only valuable because people choose to find it valuable. One example of how it could crash in value is if a competing cryptocurrency starts to gain momentum, and people jump ship, or if a major flaw is found.

There are many plausible scenarios for bitcoin going to 0.

Re: Bitcoin: the Stripe perspective

#172

Post by elithrar »

XorNot wrote: post #160
Bakkot wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, according to your response a domestic money transfer would suffer the same problems but these seem to work just fine (at least much better than international transfers). Certainly they work better, but "just fine" is a much stronger claim and one I'd disagree with. I don't find myself spending money by wire transfer hardly ever, eg, and when I do it is a much larger affair then using cash. See also andrewla's…

This is absurd. I spend money by wire transfer all the time. A good 80% or so of my ebay shopping would be wore transfers to merchants in Hong Kong via Paypal. This is a big enough issue in Australia that we've had retailer associations complain about it on occasion. Overseas money transfer is not at all difficult on a consumer level.

> This is absurd. I spend money by wire transfer all the time. A good 80% or so of my ebay shopping would be wore transfers to merchants in Hong Kong via Paypal.

It's worth noting that EFTs (Electronic Funds Transfers) between domestic banks in Australia is nearly always free, and that in your case you're not transferring money overseas at all.

You are transferring money to PayPal Australia, who is then communicating to PayPal Hong Kong that all is well - so that PayPal Hong Kong can pay the merchant. Both entities can transfer to/from local bank accounts because they have explicitly set up B2B interfaces (and met regulations) that allow them to do so.

In this case, PayPal is the bank, and they are a bank seeking to specifically facilitate money transfers between countries. You could not, for example, transfer money to a merchant in (e.g.) Siberia - they wouldn't be able to get that money out of PayPal into their regular bank account, because PayPal has no local presence/connection to the banks there.

Re: Bitcoin: the Stripe perspective

#173

Post by XorNot »

freedom123 wrote: post #155
brg444 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suggest you return to your economic and history books. Gold has no intrinsic value as you would probably call it. It is only because of some VERY distinctive properties that are not found in other metals that gold was ultimately selected as the better store of value available. Its only value comes from a market agreement. Bitcoin is essentially the same as it replicates the same properties of gold while having a mo…

Gold has intrinsic value because 1: Its rare 2: Its tangible 3: People want it. Look at history and you will see gold wrapped around everyone's neck and fingers. As mentioned before, a currency has to be back by something. Bitcoin is backed by nothing - nothing cannot be something - no matter how much you exclaim - that is the risk of investing any time with Bitcoin. Just because you like the utility of of bitcoin al…

Also, unlike Bitcoin, gold remains gold without the need for a constant supply of electricity or technology. It's an element, and part of the reason it worked as a store of value was because "ooh shiny" and zero upkeep.

Re: Bitcoin: the Stripe perspective

#174

Post by MichaelGG »

mseebach wrote: post #129
MichaelGG wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ML and LISPs existed. Surely Scheme in the browser would be a better language and implementable in the 10-day window JS had.

Functional programming is barely mainstream today, it certainly wasn't in 1995. Netscape had enough on their plate convincing people that "the web" is a cool thing and they should be on it without driving a programming paradigm change at the same time. Seriously, it's 20 years ago. You're operating with extreme hindsight.

Does ML force much of a paradigm? Make mutable the default if you want. FWIW I wasn't much of a fan of it in the late 90s either.

Re: Bitcoin: the Stripe perspective

#175

Post by bottled_poe »

sassypants wrote: post #57
boucher wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless of course they invested when bitcoin was over $1000. Ever heard the phrase "past performance is not an guarantee of future returns?"

I've been meaning to build a chart to evaluate this. The question would be: What are the longest periods of time one could have held Bitcoin and lost money? And secondarily, how frequent were the opportunities to have lost money? My ballpark guess would be that the longest you might have held Bitcoin at a loss were if you purchased during a few day span during the peak of 2011. You would have had to have held for alm…

If I understand you correctly, your estimate is way off. Have a look at the bitstamp exchange rate for the last 8 months. Looks like around 40% of days closed at a price above the current price.

Re: Bitcoin: the Stripe perspective

#176

Post by Cyther606 »

sanderjd wrote: post #148
Cyther606 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Satoshi wrote in the genesis block: The Times 03/Jan/ 2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks Bitcoin was released in staunch opposition to the banking system. > Storing value in an encrypted wallet on your computer is inconvenient to say the least It's possible to store Bitcoin on sheets of paper, or entirely in your brain, safely and securely. I get the distinct feeling you've never used Bitcoin before…

I have bought and sold a few hundreds of USD worth of BTC and even used a few tens of USD of it for transactions, and while you're definitely right about the intent and philosophy of BTC, I agree with your parent comment that what is actually exciting about BTC (or something inspired by it) is its potential as the lowest-friction way to buy things digitally. The sooner BTC shakes its crypto-libertarian culture the be…

> the vast majority of people in the world (at least those who've heard of it) know it as this weird, unsavory, and probably criminal thing

Yes, and it's the truth. What can bitcoin do that no other currency can? It can operate entirely outside of the existing banking system. That's the X factor of bitcoin, and NY regulators hate it for this reason.

The black market actually has _very_ wide appeal. It's worth north of 40% of GDP in certain developing nations. It's worth billions of dollars in America, and Bitcoin has that market cornered online. This _is not_ a bad thing. It is something worth celebrating.

I might add, the vast majority of Americans can't imagine a world in which the US Dollar isn't world reserve currency. Bitcoin was devised as a better currency system than the US Dollar ever could be, and that's why it's so special. Bitcoin doesn't try to be legal, it doesn't try to be whitewashed and savory, Bitcoin just _is_. And what it is, is a vastly superior form of money than fiat currency.

Re: Bitcoin: the Stripe perspective

#178

Post by baddox »

Vik1ng wrote: post #137
pmorici wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer for why Bitcoin instead of Gold or stocks or whatever comes down to trust and logistics. Take Gold for example you have to have to either ship the gold around which is expensive and slow or have a trusted third party store the gold and handle netting out the transactions between entities or accept delayed payment and trust that the counter party will deliver the underlying asset. Bitcoin does not require t…

You are completely ignoring that you still have to trust your own security and 3rd party apps and services.

I don't think you'll ever be able to devise a system where you don't even have to trust yourself.

Re: Bitcoin: the Stripe perspective

#179

Post by baddox »

mbillie1 wrote: post #113
Cyther606 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Numerous wallets make it dead simple to create a paper wallet. With Electrum, you just open the program and it automatically generates 12 words which you can write down on paper or learn by heart. It doesn't get much easier than that, and it's perfectly safe and secure to do.

> It doesn't get much easier than that I think a lot of people would argue that sticking with their current system (banks, fiat currency, etc) is, in fact, much easier than that.

I had to physically go to a bank and talk to people to set up my bank account. I don't see how that can be considered more convenient than spending 5 minutes on a website.

Re: Bitcoin: the Stripe perspective

#180

Post by baddox »

marincounty wrote: post #74
maaku wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gold is the typical store of value asset, and the story there is very similar.

Gold has experienced rapid growth since 2008, but historically the growth curve has been flat. I have never heard a competent Financial Advisor recommend gold. But this boom is weird? I wonder if HFT's will be to blame, when we have the crash?

How do you define the competence of a financial adviser?
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