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Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

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Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#171

Post by Mikeb85 »

johnny22 wrote: post #165
hkphooey wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK, civil partnerships were introduced for same-sex couples, which gave AFAIK the exact same legal rights and tax benefits as heterosexual marriage. However, campaigners for gay marriage said this was not good enough so the Prime Minister eventually pushed through a vote for gay marriage. So it seems the issue wasn't really about legal rights, that just comes along for the ride, it was more about using the wor…

nobody anywhere (in the US) is forcing any religious institution to do anything. where did you get that idea?

You'd be surprised, some people think non-profits shouldn't be allowed to follow their beliefs (if those beliefs discriminate against whatever the cause célèbre is).

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#172

Post by bzbarsky »

mikeash wrote: post #57
alxndr wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TFA links to his 2012 personal statement: https://brendaneich.com/2012/04/community-and-diversity/

Sadly, he doesn't explain himself at all . He says he has no animosity, but provides no explanation for how such a thing could be done without it. I imagine he thinks he has a sound, non-hateful reasoning behind his position which will not be taken as such if discussed. In context, I'd guess he's probably wrong about it being sound and non-hateful. Often, being unwilling to discuss one's positions is part of your bra…

Note that the linked-to article explicitly says he's willing to discuss this in private, and Brendan _does_ answer his mail. You're obviously under no obligation to do so, but you if you care to find out what he was thinking you could contact him and ask.

I _do_ wish he were willing to discuss this in public, though. People talking to him one on one obviously doesn't scale.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#173

Post by Mikeb85 »

jbeja wrote: post #161
Mikeb85 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gay marriage isn't a 'basic human right'. It's subscribing to a governmental institution.

So equality is not a "basic huma right"?

When gays are forced to sit at the back of the bus, or not allowed to go to the same schools, or vote, then you can argue your equality angle...

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#174

Post by fennecfoxen »

dinkumthinkum wrote: post #114
fennecfoxen wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welcome to Hacker News, bastion of intellectual freedom, where large number of people will now argue that you should be deprived of employment because you donated money to certain unpopular political campaigns. Next steps include: calling for the resignation of anyone who voted Republican in a recent election.

Deprived of an employment is a bit silly. Representing a company as its CEO is different than being a regular employee.

How about representing a company as its CTO? Like he was for the past eight years?

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#175

Post by Mikeb85 »

arg01 wrote: post #158
Mikeb85 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then where's my native (do you still call them 'indians' in the US?) status card, my veteran benefits, and my handicapped parking permit? While we're at it why can't I get maternity leave or diplomatic immunity? I'm actually married (religious ceremony) but not officially 'married' (according to the government) and I don't care nor does it really matter where I live (common-law spouses get benefits anyway). And I'm n…

I agree with your reasoning that arbitrary advantages could be viewed as discrimination. I'd argue though that in those cases the goal is to cancel out disadvantages (directly or inderectly) directly related to inherent parts of a person (sex,handicap,race) or are benefits that a person can generally choose to acquire (old age,veteran,handicap;) ). In the case of maternity leave it cancels out the propensity to fire/…

> I agree with your reasoning ... (some stuff) ...

Awesome.

Let's boycott and protest everyone who doesn't!

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#176

Post by fennecfoxen »

alexqgb wrote: post #163
fennecfoxen wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to imply voting for a cause is okay, but donating $1000 to promote that cause crosses a line. I find this distinction curious. Where is the line? Is it the first penny donated? The first dollar? Dollar #999 of 1000? Does the relevancy of the donation last forever, or is it subject to time decay? And maybe the CEO is more special than an ordinary employee, sure, but where do we draw the line on the person's j…

Votes are private. Donations are public. That's a material difference. It's the public support that's really got people frosted. That's what makes it part of the public persona that you can't just leave at the door when you come to work. Provided your power over others is limited, it's tolerable. But when people's careers are in your hands, a public history of open, gender-based discrimination really undermines the l…

Leadership positions... like, say, someone who's the CTO / Senior VP of Engineering? Like Brendan Eich was for the past eight years?

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#177

Post by jack-r-abbit »

Camillo wrote: post #65

I'd like to urge everyone to consider whether it's a good idea to comment on this story. If you voice an opinion in support of Eich, obviously that's going to be a liability in the future. But voicing an opinion against him is also a liability - there is no telling how the zeitgeist might change ten or twenty years from now. I think it's best to voice no opinion at all - and I hope this comment is not misconstrued as…

I have no problems going on record with this: I did not (and continue to not) support Prop 8. I do not support Eich's decision to fund the prop. I do support his right to fund the prop. I do not support a boycott of Mozilla solely because Eich was appointed CEO. My opinion of Firefox remains unchanged and I will continue to use it with the same (low) frequency I have for the past few years.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#178

Post by TheZenPsycho »

mason55 wrote: post #122
TheZenPsycho wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes that's the fantasy. The reality is you can't just casually fork a project as big as mozilla. The only way that codebase stays even barely maintained with security bug fixes, is with its army of coders. The great thing about FLOSS is that it's POSSIBLE. The not so great thing about it is, in many cases you're probably better off just starting from scratch.

People probably would have said that about MySQL a few years ago

And all it took to fork mariaDB was the support of several large corporations.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#179

Post by fennecfoxen »

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #82
ryguytilidie wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a fantastically creative straw man you just beat up there... Yes, because some people are boycotting a company because their founder voted to take away their civil rights, those people are bad. Nevermind the fact that the person they're criticizing not only voted for, but provided financial support for civil rights to be taken away. But yeah, this basically means people will call for all Republicans to quit t…

In a country run by the Republican party based on Christian laws. The USA is based on Christian laws? What? No doubt there's a faction that is working on that goal, but that has never been the case in this country thus far. Also, it's not like the Democrats (the party of the KKK) are much better in that regard.

>> In a country run by the Republican party based on Christian laws.

> The USA is based on Christian laws?

Forget that. The USA is run by the Republican party??!? I guess the Senate and Presidency mean nothing, then. Likewise the situation just a couple years ago when those accursed Republicans were so busy passing Obamacare...

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#180

Post by fennecfoxen »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #129
fennecfoxen wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welcome to Hacker News, bastion of intellectual freedom, where large number of people will now argue that you should be deprived of employment because you donated money to certain unpopular political campaigns. Next steps include: calling for the resignation of anyone who voted Republican in a recent election.

> Next steps include: calling for the resignation of anyone who voted Republican in a recent election. I'm actually surprised this isn't a thing...

It is. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7470443
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