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Goodbye Popcorn Time

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Re: Goodbye Popcorn Time

#171

Post by DanBC »

b3b0p wrote: post #119
nasalgoat wrote: post #80

On the topic of pirated content, I was an early contributor to the Veronica Mars movie Kickstarter, and I received my "digital download" today. It consisted of a link to sign up to two separate websites to download a specific player that would stream the video for me on supported platforms only . Also, the HD version might not be available right away. I checked and the torrent of the HD version had been online for 30…

I was also a contributor to the Veronica Mars movie Kickstarter. When I received my email today and found out it was Ultra Violet, I was quite upset. I emailed the address they have listed on the F.A.Q. site with my complaint. I backed the Kickstarter, but in order to watch it on my AppleTV I have 2 options: 1. Purchase from iTunes. or 2. Pirate. The money I spent to back the Kickstarter could have been used for the…

You kickstart something because you want to help them make it, not because you want a product in return.

While you could strip the copy protections that's a crime.

Re: Goodbye Popcorn Time

#172

Post by res0nat0r »

enraged_camel wrote: post #71
programminggeek wrote: post #34

Did anyone believe that Popcorn Time was going to end any other way than this? Either they were going to be shut down by their own choice, or their hand would be forced by outside litigation. Just because something is legal doesn't mean companies won't spend millions of dollars to make your life miserable because of what you built.

As I was arguing with rayiner on another thread, this is a prime example of what is wrong with the legal industry in the United States especially: shit is so complex that litigation is expensive, so people with more money than you can sue you into oblivion even if the law is on your side. Another way of looking at it is that, as things stand now, the legal system is just another weapon the rich and influential can us…

Unfortunately the law has to be complex and extremely detailed. You can't really use vague non specific terms when it comes to defining laws.

Re: Goodbye Popcorn Time

#173

Post by api »

Zigurd wrote: post #155
api wrote: post #108

I've scanned this whole thread and there's not a single post that is at all critical of the intentions behind Popcorn Time. I guess you're all okay with a world where content creators don't eat. Or do you have a better idea than copyright? If so, by all means let's hear it. I promise you that the person who solves that problem in an accessible way will be the next Mark Zuckerberg, or at least Tim Berners-Lee. Every s…

> Maybe the end of copyright as we know it is technologically inevitable. But in the meantime it shows more than a little bit of ignorance, naiveté, and douchebaggery to congratulate each other on destroying peoples' livelihoods en masse. Let's say we roll the clock back to before DRM was enshrined in what used to be general purpose computing hardware. Let's say we had the option to refuse it. Would you rather have D…

No, that's a false alternative. The third option is to invent something that has not been invented yet-- something neither DRM nor Popcorn Time.

If I had the time to dedicate I would start with the idea that creative works are non-random pieces of unique valuable information. Then I would delve heavily into information theory, byzantine agreement, crypto currencies, and similar areas and see what I could come up with.

Re: Goodbye Popcorn Time

#174

Post by Einstalbert »

DanBC wrote: post #171
b3b0p wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was also a contributor to the Veronica Mars movie Kickstarter. When I received my email today and found out it was Ultra Violet, I was quite upset. I emailed the address they have listed on the F.A.Q. site with my complaint. I backed the Kickstarter, but in order to watch it on my AppleTV I have 2 options: 1. Purchase from iTunes. or 2. Pirate. The money I spent to back the Kickstarter could have been used for the…

You kickstart something because you want to help them make it, not because you want a product in return. While you could strip the copy protections that's a crime.

I'm not sure what is unclear about, "If you donate X, you will receive Y." That's not a simple donation, it's a pre-order.

Re: Goodbye Popcorn Time

#175

Post by hapless »

res0nat0r wrote: post #172
enraged_camel wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I was arguing with rayiner on another thread, this is a prime example of what is wrong with the legal industry in the United States especially: shit is so complex that litigation is expensive, so people with more money than you can sue you into oblivion even if the law is on your side. Another way of looking at it is that, as things stand now, the legal system is just another weapon the rich and influential can us…

Unfortunately the law has to be complex and extremely detailed. You can't really use vague non specific terms when it comes to defining laws.

Somehow people managed to do just that for thousands of years

Re: Goodbye Popcorn Time

#176

Post by Zigurd »

api wrote: post #173
Zigurd wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe the end of copyright as we know it is technologically inevitable. But in the meantime it shows more than a little bit of ignorance, naiveté, and douchebaggery to congratulate each other on destroying peoples' livelihoods en masse. Let's say we roll the clock back to before DRM was enshrined in what used to be general purpose computing hardware. Let's say we had the option to refuse it. Would you rather have D…

No, that's a false alternative. The third option is to invent something that has not been invented yet-- something neither DRM nor Popcorn Time. If I had the time to dedicate I would start with the idea that creative works are non-random pieces of unique valuable information. Then I would delve heavily into information theory, byzantine agreement, crypto currencies, and similar areas and see what I could come up with…

Until you come up with that thing, it's the choice we face.

Re: Goodbye Popcorn Time

#177

Post by api »

Noxchi wrote: post #158
api wrote: post #108

I've scanned this whole thread and there's not a single post that is at all critical of the intentions behind Popcorn Time. I guess you're all okay with a world where content creators don't eat. Or do you have a better idea than copyright? If so, by all means let's hear it. I promise you that the person who solves that problem in an accessible way will be the next Mark Zuckerberg, or at least Tim Berners-Lee. Every s…

First, lets establish what money is. How much money you have is proportional to: * How much value you create * Your ability / willingness to monetize it Now lets talk about why most artists are starving. These creatives are in the entertainment niche. Which is very different from the problem solving niche. 1. Entertainment is not a necessity, it is a luxury 2. Entertainment is a low-cost luxury[1] 3. This is a lot of…

Giving stuff away can be a fabulous way to garner publicity, and people have every right to do it. I'm just saying that if everything is free and always free, art becomes nothing more than a hobby.

The trouble with that is that great art takes a lot of time to produce. If it involves more than one person, which means pretty much any film and most recorded music, then it also costs money or many peoples' time. So if people cannot make a living off it, then they cannot dedicate that time. You will not have any great art.

One irony of all this is that pirates often talk about how they're sticking up for the little guy and sticking it to the big multi-millionaire artists. But that's not how it works. The little guy -- the indy band, the small film studio -- is part of the long tail. When you subtract across the board, the long tail gets hit harder as a percentage of its total income than the big guys.

Edit: realized that the reason the MPAA are the most insane about this is probably because major movies are really big-ticket investments. The risk is a lot larger, and to more people.

To add even more irony, books are among the least pirated things and Kindle is one of the most successful for-pay art markets on the 'net. Yet books cost less to produce than recorded music and much less than movies. Go figure. Even weirder, Kindle uses DRM and yet nobody seems to care.

Re: Goodbye Popcorn Time

#178

Post by api »

Zigurd wrote: post #176
api wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's a false alternative. The third option is to invent something that has not been invented yet-- something neither DRM nor Popcorn Time. If I had the time to dedicate I would start with the idea that creative works are non-random pieces of unique valuable information. Then I would delve heavily into information theory, byzantine agreement, crypto currencies, and similar areas and see what I could come up with…

Until you come up with that thing, it's the choice we face.

Not really. You kind of missed my point. There is no DRM in my iTunes music, but I paid for it. Apple takes ~30% of iTunes though, so it still stinks, but at least the artist gets something. Part of why I use iTunes is that most of the research I see shows that buying music there or through similar classes of digital music services (and movies, etc., I get those there too) sends a greater amount of revenue to the artist than Spotify and other streaming stuff. I also use Kindle, which has DRM but it's apparently fairly easy to strip off as most DRM is. DRM is kind of a red herring.

All I was saying is that creating an app that explicitly works to make piracy as easy as possible and to throw as much pirated content as possible at the user is kind of a dick move. It's doubly a dick move if they end up profiting from it. When money gets involved in piracy I think any grey area that might be there goes away. Now it really is stealing, plain and simple. It's worse than any sketchy lawyered-up studio exec.

Re: Goodbye Popcorn Time

#179

Post by CodeMage »

DanBC wrote: post #171
b3b0p wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was also a contributor to the Veronica Mars movie Kickstarter. When I received my email today and found out it was Ultra Violet, I was quite upset. I emailed the address they have listed on the F.A.Q. site with my complaint. I backed the Kickstarter, but in order to watch it on my AppleTV I have 2 options: 1. Purchase from iTunes. or 2. Pirate. The money I spent to back the Kickstarter could have been used for the…

You kickstart something because you want to help them make it, not because you want a product in return. While you could strip the copy protections that's a crime.

That's disingenuous. I am well aware that a Kickstarter pledge is not the same thing as a pre-order -- the project might fail, circumstances might change, etc. However, the $35 tier specifies that "You will receive a digital version of the movie within a few days of the movie's theatrical debut". I assume @b3b0p pledged an amount within that tier. Unless that assumption is wrong, the complaint is justified, at least morally and maybe legally.

Re: Goodbye Popcorn Time

#180

Post by saraid216 »

hapless wrote: post #175
res0nat0r wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately the law has to be complex and extremely detailed. You can't really use vague non specific terms when it comes to defining laws.

Somehow people managed to do just that for thousands of years

I don't believe you.
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